Being Your Best in High Stress Situations With Jeff Banman

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Katie: Hello and welcome to Valence Mama Podcast. I am Katie from and, a new line of completely natural and safe personal care products, as well as traditional alternatives. And in this episode, we’re going to talk about how to be the best you can be in high-stress situations, which most of us have been experiencing for the past few months. I’m here with Jeff Benman, a former firefighter, US Army Ranger, and CIA counterterrorism operator. And he has dedicated his life to discovering who succeeds to those who are not successful. He has carried out operations and missions all over the world, including in war zones and dangerous environments. And before sitting down and thinking, “Well, what does that have to do with me?” I have always maintained that parents have a lot in common with special forces and we are going to go into that today. In fact, I would, especially, often mentally, stand up to mothers against special forces, but we are going to talk about that and how we can apply the lessons learned from those who Too much stress in events, in extreme situations work better in your daily life. And Jeff is a parent too, so we also talk about how to cultivate this mindset of resilience and strength in your children from an early age, highlighting the fact that they have three C’s. C) Says: Calmness, confidence and creativity. Great fun event and I know you will enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the recording. Jeff, welcome. Thanks for coming here

Jeff: Hey, Katie, thank you for keeping me. I really appreciate it.

Katie: I’m excited to chat with you because I’ve heard a couple of podcast interviews that you’ve done with other podcasts and some really useful points about the things that we’ve learned. Learn to be the best in stressful situations. And I think there is definitely no shortage of high-stress situations in modern life these days, especially right now. And so I think it will be a very practical and helpful interview. And for someone who has just heard your bio and is thinking, “Well, this guy is amazing. He was a Ranger and he was in the CIA, but what does that have to do with me?” Dina? I just want to predict all my parents by saying that I really think I will stand up to the mothers against the Special Forces in a lot of situations. And I’ve been joking about it for a long time. , But I think there are some similarities in reality, not just to those who make fun of sleep deprivation, which, in my understanding, they really stopped using as a form of torture Still enduring

But just being able to run a family, manage a team, be a leader in the face of all the challenges of our day and step back as a mother or as someone in a fight. You do not have the permission required to post. And so I think there are a lot of similarities. And I think listening parents can learn a lot from your research and your mindset because of that.

Jeff: Yes, I appreciate that. I mean, this is it. There is a canal that runs between us all. And to me, I always come to the place where it is like, no matter what the situation is or you are abroad and doing crazy things or running into a burning building or trying Do, you know, manage three screaming kids. That is a fact. I, you know, I’ll tell you myself. Living in the world is as easy as staying home for a while. So I’m in full agreement with you that you can have a lot of parents and you can definitely have a lot of moms and you can stand them up against some of the “best people” out there and they will probably come. Because of the complications they deal with on a regular basis, they get better on the other end.

Katie: And I think I’ve learned something interesting from you and I’d like to take an interest in it. I hope that a lot of the listeners were never shot and never really. Has had to be in a fighting situation like this. But from what I’ve heard and read from you, the brain doesn’t necessarily know the difference between the kind of stress we have and the other types we experience every day. Is that ok

Jeff: Yes. I mean, I think what we’ve learned over time is that the sense of tension has become so individual that you can’t come up with it, “Oh, their job is harder than mine.” ? You can’t come up with a mindset that somehow, you know, but I’ll use that as an example. A mother who somehow tries to run the house and take care of the children and try her best and sometimes she may try to keep her husband in line or vice versa, or whatever. Yeah Al that sounds pretty crap to me, Looks like BT aint for me either. You know, it’s somehow less stressful or less important or less, anywhere, running into a burning building or chasing bad people or working all over the world. It’s not a matter of comparison in my book, right? How you feel and how you act is always the same, so individual.

And that’s why we have to go this way. We have to give ourselves a little grace on it, you know and stay away from it, “Well, you know, I just do it.” No, it’s a big lift every day. This is a great achievement, a great work. There is a lot in it. And, you know, sometimes as human beings I think we don’t trust ourselves as much as we do our own things and how we deal with things.

Katie: Yes, I agree. And there are memories and jokes circulating in the mother community like you know, I kept the little ones alive all day. But it also highlights the fact that we have these people who are fully responsible for us, we have to keep them alive like in a combat situation and the team is responsible for keeping each other alive and well. And so our brains, especially as mothers, are very, very real. And of course, there can be the tension that goes with it. I am interested in what you have found in your research that differs from those who deal well with stress who struggle more in such stressful situations.

Jeff: Yeah, it’s kind of what I call operational mindset because of what community I’m serving now and what I’m going to do; how I’m going to contribute now. You know, and I really had the opportunity to do some diving and some deep diving research, look at human behavior in high stress environments. I mean, I was doing biofeedback and mind set things before I got cold. So you were talking a long time ago. And, you know, as soon as I started looking at people’s strengths and weaknesses, there were three things that I swore and it was very interesting and it got from the statistics and interviews and watching. Was what kind of you are, you know, 1% of performances in my world

And you hear it in their language, in their stories, and it really comes down to three main points. Ability to be extremely comfortable in extremely uncomfortable situations, right? And this is not a model of happiness. It’s like a place, well, I’m fine and yes, it’s probably not a big situation or it’s not a problem for me, or it’s a new experience, or it’s just pulling me, but it’s a It’s like a reminder that I’m fine. I’m good here i can manage it Which blood flows to the other point around qualification, right? So calm and incompetent. And this is not arrogance. It’s not like I got it, I can handle it. It’s retreating, I say; referring to your own strength, right? I am living Okay fine. Again, this is a reminder, I’m fine. I can deal with it. I don’t necessarily like it. I don’t have to deal with it right now, but I’m fine and I’m confident. I will rely on my own abilities to develop my abilities and my own points of emotional control and stability which can be a long moment of this kind in time.

And then the last one is creativity, right? And it’s like, I don’t know, but I’ll find out. You know, and moms, I think moms do a lot more than dads. I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it myself. They have a special ability to redirect or move or be creative or find creative solutions in an instant. And, you know, it’s one of the most important things I’ve spent years training operators to figure out how to bring a unique level of creativity into the environment. Can’t even It’s never going to be the way we want it to be. And if we’re not accelerating our game at that level of flexibility and adapting to these conditions, you know, then the avalanche starts, right? I don’t know if it starts downhill. No, I don’t know what to do. And then I start killing myself and then I get frustrated or I’m worried about something else and I’m not going anywhere at the moment. So really, I’ve noticed that the three characteristics of skill are calmness, confidence and creativity. We try to achieve this in many ways.

Katie: I like it. It’s so easy to remember and focus on. Do you have any practical points to learn as an adult and then to develop mindfulness in our children? Because I school my six kids and I basically write my curriculum because I realize that the school system, I didn’t feel like it was preparing them for anything that would make them Looks like adult life, customized. And so we focus on the core values ​​of creativity and critical thinking and connecting points and thinking outside the box so that they can be rewarded for these things. And that’s how I learned to do it in the school environment. But I like what you’re saying and I’m interested, as parents we can learn to do it at a time when things get stressful and can help tell our kids. ۔

Jeff: Yeah, I guess, you know, it’s Katie, it’s always fun. Sounds like there’s a lot of complexity behind some very simple things, right? And so at the end of the day, you know, whether; it doesn’t matter when I’m working with my kids or mine, you know, I’ve got a couple, I’ve got 16, 14 Has got a commotion and two and a half. So I went back and did it again, which has been amazing. We do a lot of work in the field of parenting awareness parenting, pay attention to many things. But at the end of the day, I feel like we don’t give ourselves or our kids or our family too much time. And that’s just the place.

And that’s how we make space, right? Freedom to learn, a place to really like and digest what is happening. And it’s the best tool for me to breathe, right? And a million and a half, you know, options for breathing work and to use different times for all sorts of things and different things. I always teach people, that’s it, find out what works for you. You know, maybe it’s just four long long breaths and maybe it’s 30 seconds, maybe it’s one minute, maybe it’s five minutes, right? But it’s just the breath that actually does one or two things for us. It allows us to anchor ourselves in the present moment. You know, you’ll see me, I’ll be caught in a whirlwind and I’ll look around and hear the chirping of birds or what is really happening now, right? And I’m really predicting what’s going on. I am able to connect with my children in this way, what is happening to them.

Because when I do that, it settles me, it settles them. And again, these would mean that you have to spend for these processes. My go-to word, and, you know, I say it all the time on my podcast, but I feel like my world, our job, and my parents’ job, our determination to calm the chaos. And if we are not calm, we are in chaos. And so, that’s fine – this is a metal check. And am I creating chaos or am I just calming the man chaos? And so when I use this mental check I can back off. I can easily create only the kind of stimulus in the float breathing cycle and then my energy becomes constant and when my energy is established, everyone’s energy is fixed. And then we like, “Well, what do we need to do now? What’s the next step? And it’s true, you know, in a burning building, in a fight, it’s true. It’s true all over the world. Operations are going on and looking for bad guys and all sorts of things, so I think we’re like a universal anchor to which we can apply.

Katie: Yeah, I like that. It’s the simplest but most practical thing we can try. And I feel like another thing I’ve read or heard from you, it’s the idea, and you touched on it a little bit, but that people usually like direct pressure or things like that. Better to handle what we identify as pressure or as many people say, I’m very good at crisis style. And my husband and I went so far as to say, “We’re very good at crisis, but what’s the problem with that kind of paperwork?” And I know for moms who are usually at the end of the day from 4: 00 to: 00: pp in the morning when there’s pressure and you just have that kind of pressure and overwhelm. Feels like. And that’s because of all the little things that happen all day long. So any points to deal with when it’s not just some kind of big thing, nothing massive, nothing deadly, but there are also such small worries?

Jeff: 100%. So that was probably one of the catalysts when we were doing the research. So we were able to really see the minute shifts in the change in heart rate, which is a measurable source of pressure on the system, on the body, right, internally. And we had a very interesting event. So what we did was we divided the pressure into three key types. So direct pressure, these are the things that come to us that we are prepared for in various ways, we train them or we expect it to happen maybe in the day or in the whole environment. Then we have indirect pressure. یہ ایسی چیزیں ہیں جو ہو سکتی ہیں ، لیکن ہمیں اندھا کرنے کی طرف مائل ہیں ، ٹھیک ہے؟ میں اکثر اس کا موازنہ کرتا ہوں جیسے آپ سڑک پر چل رہے ہو ، آپ کو معلوم ہے۔ ہاں ، ہمیشہ ایک حادثہ ہونے کا امکان رہتا ہے ، لیکن آپ صرف ، جب آپ چوراہے کے بیچ میں تھے تو آپ نے بالکل سرخرو کیا ، کسی نے سرخ روشنی کی روشنی چلائی۔ آپ نے اسے آتا ہوا نہیں دیکھا۔ اور یہ ایک سطح ہے۔

اور پھر یہ تیسرا زمرہ ہے ، جسے میں بالواسطہ کہتا ہوں یا میں سیٹلائٹ یا پردیی تناؤ کو فون کرتا ہوں۔ یہ ماحول میں پریشان کن چیزوں کی طرح ہیں۔ یہ ہیں میں اپنی چابیاں نہیں ڈھونڈ سکتا۔ یہ ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، بچہ سیل فون تکیا کے نیچے بھرتا ہے اور آپ اسے نہیں ڈھونڈ سکتے ہیں ، ٹھیک ہے؟ اور میں نے متعدد چیزوں کے ذریعہ جو کچھ پایا وہ کیا ہم کارکردگی کو کم سے کم ایک براہ راست اور بالواسطہ پتھر دیکھتے ہیں ، لیکن جب ہم واقعی ماحول میں مصنوعی سیارہ یا پردیی تناؤ کو بڑھاتے ہیں تو ہم کارکردگی میں نمایاں کمی محسوس کرتے ہیں۔ اور یہ میرے لئے بہت دلچسپ تھا کیوں کہ ہم نے یہ دیکھنا شروع کیا کہ وقت کے ساتھ چھوٹے لمحوں سے بحالی کی نااہلی نے اسے کیا پیدا کیا جسے ہم اسٹیکنگ اثر کہتے ہیں۔

لہذا لفظی طور پر ، یہ ایک پریشان کن تناؤ تھا ، کسی قسم کے جھنجھٹ کا عنصر بازیافت نہیں ہوا ، کام جاری رکھنا یا کام جاری رکھنا۔ ایک اور نے بار اٹھایا ، کسی نے بار اٹھایا ، کسی نے بار اٹھایا اور راستے میں ٹھیک ہونے میں ناکامی ہوئی۔ یا جیسے میں بازیافت ہونے کے بارے میں بات کرتا ہوں ، جیسے یہ آپ میں موجود ہے 24/7 جہاں آپ واقعی میں پریشانی کے گھیرے کو محسوس کرسکتے ہیں۔ آپ مایوسی کا احساس محسوس کرسکتے ہیں۔ آپ جسم میں پیدا ہونے والی احساس کو محسوس کرسکتے ہیں ، جو محرک ہے۔ جانے کے لئے ، “ٹھیک ہے ، مجھے صحت یاب ہونے کی ضرورت ہے۔” اور یہ شاید ایک آدھ سیکنڈ ہوسکتا ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو کہ ، آپ کو گولی مارتے ہوئے کور کے ٹکڑے کے پیچھے۔ اور یہ ہوسکتا ہے کہ بچوں کو ایک سیکنڈ کے لئے ٹی وی کے سامنے کھڑا کریں اور دوسرے کمرے میں جاکر کریں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، جلدی سے بستر پر بیٹھ گیا اور ٹھیک ہے ، میں ابھی سانس لے رہا ہوں اور بس گیا ہوں۔ یہ بہت سی چیزیں ہوسکتی ہیں ، ہے نا؟

لہذا آپ کو تخلیق کرنا ہوگا جو آپ کے لئے کام کرتا ہے۔ لیکن واقعی جوہر یہ ہے کہ آپ چھوٹی چھوٹی چیزوں سے کتنی اچھی طرح سے صحت یاب ہوسکتے ہیں اور ان چیزوں کو مرکب نہیں ہونے دیتے ہیں کیوں کہ اس کے نتیجے میں کوئی خاص چیز برآمد ہوگی۔ اگر آپ کو صرف وقت کے ساتھ ساتھ تعمیر کرنے کی اجازت مل جاتی ہے تو آپ خود کو سڑک پر لگنے والے راستے میں دباؤ ڈالتے ہیں۔ کیا آپ کو اس کا کوئی مطلب ہے؟

کیٹی: ہاں ، یہ کرتا ہے۔ یہ کل سمجھ میں آتا ہے۔ اور میں اسے اپنی زندگی میں دیکھ سکتا ہوں۔ جب آپ اپنی پسند کے دنوں کے درمیان صرف اتنا فرق محسوس کرتے ہو کہ آپ صرف اسی مقام کو محسوس کرتے ہیں اور پھر اس وقت ہر چیز ناقابل شکست معلوم ہوتی ہے۔ جیسے آپ کو رات کا کھانا بنانا ہے اور یہ دنیا کا اختتام ہے۔ اور یہ بھی ، یہ ایک اچھی یاد دہانی ہے ، کیوں کہ میرے خیال میں ہمارے بچوں کو بھی ایسا محسوس ہوتا ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، جب آپ کے پاس ایک چھوٹا بچہ ہوتا ہے جس نے مارٹاؤن ڈاون پوائنٹ کو مکمل طور پر ٹکر ماری ہوتی ہے ، تو شاید اسی جگہ پر جہاں وہ ہوتے ہیں۔ اور اس طرح یاد رکھنا ، آپ جانتے ہو ، انہیں کوئی مسئلہ نہیں ہو رہا ہے ، انہیں ایک مسئلہ درپیش ہے۔ اور ہم ان کی اسی طرح سے گزرنے اور دوبارہ ترتیب دینے میں کس طرح مدد کرسکتے ہیں ، جیسا کہ یہ ایک عمدہ یاد دہانی ہے۔

جیف: ہاں۔ اور یہ ہی ہے ، اور اس کی وجہ سے اگر آپ… یہ بہت آسانی سے ہوسکتا ہے ، جیسے آپ کبھی کبھی احساس کیے بغیر ہی افراتفری میں مبتلا ہوجاتے ہیں۔ اور یہی چوکی ہے۔ یہ ایسا ہی ہے ، ایک منٹ انتظار کرو ، میں واقعتا، ہوں ، میں ابھی افراتفری کا شکار ہوں۔ ہوسکتا ہے اور والدین کی حیثیت سے میں اس کو لے کر آرہا ہوں کیونکہ یہ میرا جواب ہے۔ میں نے ابھی ایک عمدہ کتاب پڑھی جہاں اس نے توانائی سے بھرپور رضامندی کے بارے میں بات کی اور اس طرح خلا میں ہماری اپنی توانائی اور اس کے اثرات جو ہمارے آس پاس کے ہر فرد پر پڑسکتے ہیں اس کا ذمہ دار کیسے بنے۔ تم جانتے ہو ، اور میں اپنی دنیا سے جانتا ہوں کہ بہت بڑی بات تھی۔ آپ جانتے ہیں ، اگر میں کسی اعلی رسک میٹنگ میں جا رہا ہوں یا وقت کے ساتھ کسی جگہ میں آ رہا ہوں ، یا ہم آگ چلا رہے ہیں یا معاملات ٹھیک نہیں ہو رہے ہیں تو ، میں صرف الفاظ میں نہیں بلکہ جوابات کے ساتھ کیا جواب دوں گا۔ توانائی ، میرے آس پاس کے لوگوں میں ایک اہم فرق پڑتا ہے اور یہ میرے بچوں کے ساتھ ہوتا ہے ، ٹھیک ہے؟ ماحول میں میری توانائی کیسے بہتی ہے یہ اہم ہے۔

اور اس لئے مجھے واقعتا to کرنا ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، میں کرسکتا ہوں ، آپ جان سکتے ہو ، کمانڈ میں لاک کریں اور جیف کو کنٹرول کریں ، ٹھیک ہے؟ کیونکہ اسی طرح میں نے 35 سال تک اپنی زندگی بسر کی۔ لیکن مجھے اس کے لئے واقعتا responsible ذمہ دار ہونا پڑے گا اور اپنی توانائی کو صورتحال کی ضروریات سے سمجھنا اور اس سے مطابقت رکھنا ہوگا ، آپ جانتے ہو ، جیسے یہ مایوسی یا اضطراب کے جال میں پڑنے کے بجائے کھل رہا ہے یا ، آپ جانتے ہو ، جو کچھ بھی ہے۔ اور تو یہ ہے… اور یہ ایک روزمرہ کی مشق ہے۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، میں اس میں دن میں کم از کم ایک یا دو بار ناکام ہوں ، اگر نہیں تو پانچ بار۔ کچھ دن میں بہت اچھا ہوں ، کچھ دن میں خوفناک ہوں۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، یہ کچھ بھی نہیں ہے کہ آپ زین آؤٹ کو پسند کریں اور اس کے ماہر بنیں۔ یہ واقعی زندگی کا ایک روزانہ عمل ہے۔

کیٹی: بالکل۔ اور یہ ایک ایسی چیز کی طرف واپس آجاتا ہے جو میرے لئے ایک زندگی بھر کا سفر رہا ہے اور میں اپنے بچوں کو ہمیشہ یاد دلاتا ہوں کہ یہ بھی ہے کہ ہم ہمیشہ اپنے اپنے ردعمل اور اپنے ردعمل کا انتخاب کرنے کی صلاحیت رکھتے ہیں۔ اور کم از کم میری اپنی زندگی میں ، میں نے محسوس کیا ہے کہ میں اس حد تک زیادہ خوش ہوں جس میں میں ان چیزوں پر توجہ مرکوز کرتا ہوں جن میں مجھے تبدیل کرنے کی طاقت ہوتی ہے ، جو اکثر ہمیشہ میرے اپنے جذبات ہوتی ہے ، میرا اپنا ردعمل ہوتا ہے ، میں کیسے ہوں میں اپنے محرک سے باہر کی تمام چیزوں پر توجہ مرکوز کرنے کی بنا پر کسی محرک پر ردعمل ظاہر کر رہا ہوں کہ موجودہ دنیا کی چیزوں پر اثر انداز ہونے کا حقیقت میں کوئی راستہ نہیں ہے۔ یا آپ جانتے ہو ، یہاں تک کہ میرے بچوں کے ساتھ بھی سلوک۔ میرے خیال میں بہت سارے والدین ، ​​اس طرح کے دباؤ زد میں آنا آسان ہے ، میں انہیں کیوں نہیں کر سکتا؟ وہ ایسا کیوں نہیں کریں گے؟ اور واقعتا any کوئی بھی والدین جانتا ہے۔

جیف: میں کبھی بھی ایسا نہیں کرتا ، کیٹی۔ کبھی ایسا نہ کریں۔

کیٹی: لیکن اس پر آپ کا کوئی کنٹرول نہیں ہے ، کیا آپ؟ کوئی بھی والدین جو سمجھتا ہے کہ ان کا کوئی کنٹرول نہیں ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو کہ دو سال کے بچے کو کنٹرول کرنے کی کوشش کریں۔ لیکن اس خیال کی طرف واپس جانا ، اور میں اپنے والدین کی طرح ہر وقت اپنے بچوں سے کہتا ہوں کہ مجھے اس کی ایک مثال بننے کی ضرورت ہے ، لیکن یہ بھی ہم سب اس ڈگری سے خوش ہوتے ہیں جس پر ہم اپنی توجہ مرکوز کرتے ہیں اختیار. ایک والدین کی حیثیت سے بطور رہنما ایک طرح کے آمر کے نقطہ نظر کی طرح باشعور والدین پر توجہ مرکوز کرنے کے ل tell ، میں اپنے بچوں سے کہتا ہوں کہ آپ نے یہ جملہ سنا ہے ، “بڑی طاقت کے ساتھ بڑی ذمہ داری آتی ہے ،” لیکن ہمارے گھر میں یہ الٹ ہے۔ یہ ہے “بڑی ذمہ داری کے ساتھ بڑی طاقت آتی ہے”۔ جب آپ اپنے لئے یا اپنے کنٹرول میں موجود چیزوں کے لئے ملکیت لیتے ہیں ، جب آپ آزادی حاصل کرتے ہیں تو ، آپ طاقت حاصل کرتے ہیں کیونکہ آپ یہ ظاہر کررہے ہیں کہ آپ اس کے قابل اور قابل ہیں۔

اور مجھے لگتا ہے کہ والدین کے لئے بھی یہ سبق ہے۔ اور یہ ایک مشکل بات ہے کہ یقینی طور پر صرف ہر دن جاگنا اور جانا آسان نہیں ہے ، ٹھیک ہے ، میں صرف ان چیزوں پر توجہ مرکوز کروں گا جن پر میں قابو پا سکتا ہوں اور میں آج بھی واضح طور پر پرسکون رہوں گا۔ لیکن یہ ایک ٹپ ہے۔ جب میں اس توجہ کو برقرار رکھنے کے قابل ہوں تو یہ واقعتا me واقعتا me میری مدد کرتا ہے۔

جیف: ٹھیک ہے ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، اور دوسری چیز جو ہمیں معلوم ہے کہ ہم حالات کے سامنے شاید ہی کبھی موجود ہوں ، ٹھیک ہے؟ جو ہو رہا ہے اس کے ساتھ ہم یہاں شاذ و نادر ہی ہیں۔ اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، یہ اتنا دلچسپ ہے کہ واپس جاکر دوبارہ یہ کام کرسکتا ہے اور چھوٹے آدمی کو بڑے ہوکر ، ٹھیک ، اور اس چھوٹے سے حیرت انگیز ریڈ انسان کو ادھر ادھر بھاگتے دیکھنا قابل ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، وہ چیزوں کی پیش گوئی نہیں کر رہا ہے۔ وہ اس کے بارے میں نہیں سوچ رہا ہے ، “اوہ ، کیا میں آج سہ پہر پلے ٹائم کروں گا یا لنچ کیا ہوگا؟” یا ، تم جانتے ہو کہ میرا کیا مطلب ہے؟ اس کی کوئی اگلی نظر نہیں ہے۔ ابھی ٹھیک ہے۔ اور والدین کی حیثیت سے یا بطور رہنما ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ہم مستقبل کے معدنیات سے متعلق بندھے ہوئے ہیں۔ ہم ابھی وہاں پھنس جاتے ہیں اور وہ ہمیشہ کہیں جانے کی کوشش کرتا ہے یا ہمیشہ اگلی چیز پر جانے کی کوشش کرتا ہے۔ یا ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، مجھے کس چیز کی تیاری کرنے کی ضرورت ہے؟ مجھے یہ یقینی بنانا ہوگا کہ دوپہر کا کھانا ترتیب دیا گیا ہے۔ مجھے چاہئے… کچھ ہونے کے لئے ہمیشہ ہم آہنگی اور تیاری رہتی ہے۔ اور شاذ و نادر ہی ہم خود کو موقع فراہم کرتے ہیں کہ وہ اس لمحے سے لطف اندوز ہوں یا جو ہو رہا ہے اس کے ساتھ موجود ہوں یا جو واقعی ہو رہا ہے اس سے منسلک ہوں۔ اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ہم باہر نکل جانے کے راستے میں پھنس جاتے ہیں۔

اور اس طرح مجھے لگتا ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اور یہ سچ ہے۔ سنو ، میں کامیاب نہیں ہوتا۔ ایسے وقت موجود ہیں جب میں زندہ نہیں رہ سکتا تھا اگر میرے پاس کچھ یا کچھ نہ ہوتا یا کوئی مجھے اس چیز کی طرف واپس لے آتا جو فی الحال واقع ہورہا ہے۔ اور میری دنیا کے ل that ، اس جگہ میں اتنی زیادہ آزادی ہے جب آپ واقعتا just صرف پرسکون ہوسکتے ہیں اور اس طرح ہوسکتے ہیں کہ آپ اس لمحے میں کس کے ساتھ ہو۔ “اوہ ، واہ” جیسی ہے۔ اور بس ہر طرح کی نئی چیزیں اٹھتی ہیں۔ اسی جگہ پر آپ کو اطمینان حاصل ہوتا ہے۔ اسی جگہ پر آپ کو اعتماد محسوس ہوتا ہے۔ یہیں سے آپ تخلیقی ہو جاتے ہیں کیوں کہ اصل میں آپ اپنے آس پاس کے لوگوں اور خاص کر اپنے بچوں کے ساتھ ہوتے ہیں۔

اور مجھے لگتا ہے کہ یہ ایک بربادی ہے جو ہم اپنے بچوں میں پیدا کرتے ہیں یہ مستقبل کا سامان ہے۔ اگر ہم ہمیشہ آگے آگے جام آ رہے ہیں ، اگر ہم ہمیشہ ہی منصوبہ بندی کرنا اور تیار کرنا چاہتے ہیں اور یہ ہونا چاہئے اور یہی ہونا چاہئے تو وہی جانتے ہیں۔ یہی وہ جس کے ساتھ بڑے ہو رہے ہیں۔ اور پھر وہ اس فکر کے ساتھ بڑے ہو جاتے ہیں جیسے اگلے یا بعد میں آج سہ پہر یا شیڈولنگ یا یہ یا وہ کیا ہے۔ میں یہ نہیں کہہ رہا ہوں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ہم آہنگی پیدا نہیں کی جائے گی۔ آپ نہیں کر سکتے ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، آپ کو مربوط نہیں کیا جاسکتا۔ آپ منصوبہ نہیں بنا سکتے۔ لیکن موجودہ لمحے سے ہمارے اپنے تعلق کا ذمہ دار ہونا میرے خیال میں ہم میں سے بہت سے لوگوں کے لئے گیم چینجر ہے۔

کیٹی: میں بالکل اتفاق کرتا ہوں اور یہ مجھے کبھی کبھی حیرت میں ڈالتا ہے اور انگلیاں بھی اپنی طرف اشارہ کرتی ہیں ، لیکن بالغ ہونے کے باوجود بھی بہت سارے لوگوں کے لئے آرام سے رہنا ، خاموش رہنا کتنا مشکل ہوتا ہے۔ اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ان تمام فلاسفروں اور اسٹوکس کے یہ سب عظیم کتابیں اور حوالہ جات موجود ہیں کہ ہماری زندگی کے عظیم کاموں میں سے یہ ہے کہ ہم ابھی بھی خاموش رہنا سیکھیں اور ایک عظیم کتاب کہاں ہے ، ”خاموشی ہی کلیدی حیثیت ہے۔ ” اور بس ، مجھے لگتا ہے کہ یہ آج کی دنیا میں کھوئی ہوئی مہارت ہے کیونکہ مستقل محرک ہے۔ ہمیشہ اگلی چیز جاری رہتی ہے۔ اور شاید حالیہ واقعات اس حقیقت کا ایک بہت بڑا استاد رہا جب یہ سب ختم ہو گیا ، ہمیں صرف اس بات پر توجہ مرکوز رکھنی ہوگی کہ کیا ہے اور صرف موجود رہنا ہے اور ہم میں سے کچھ کے ل how کتنا مشکل رہا ہے ، میں بھی شامل ہوں۔

جیف: ہاں۔ ہم اپنے ساتھ رہنا پسند نہیں کرتے ہیں۔ ہم خاموش رہنا پسند نہیں کرتے چونکہ پھر اس سے یہ تکلیف دہ احساس شروع ہوتا ہے ، اوہ ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، مجھے کچھ کرنا چاہئے یا ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ابھی مجھے کیا کرنے کی ضرورت ہے؟ یا ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ہم صرف ٹھیک ہیں ، ہم معاشرے اور ایک ثقافت اور ایک ایسی زندگی کو تیار کر رہے ہیں جو اب ہم کیا کر رہے ہیں ، نہیں بلکہ اب ہم کیا کر رہے ہیں۔ سنو ، مجھے کچھ حیرت انگیز لوگوں کو تربیت دینے اور کچھ حیرت انگیز لوگوں کو تیار کرنے کا موقع ملا ہے جو اچھی طرح سے کام کر رہے ہیں۔ یہاں تک کہ آپ مجھے بھی ادائیگی کرسکتے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ایک سال میں ایک بلین ڈالر جانا ہے۔ جیسے نہیں ، آپ کا شکریہ۔ اور واحد راستہ ہے کہ وہ ہمیشہ کامیاب ہوسکتے ہیں جب وہ سمجھ جاتے ہیں کہ اس لمحے میں وہاں کیسے رہنا ہے۔

آپ جانتے ہیں ، اگر آپ سوچ رہے ہیں تو ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، میں اس لڑکے کے ساتھ کس طرح کام کروں گا؟ میں اس سے کیا ذہانت حاصل کرنے جا رہا ہوں؟ یہ کیسا چل رہا ہے؟ آپ جانتے ہو ، ان سب کو کرنے کے لئے ایک وقت اور جگہ موجود ہے۔ لیکن پھر جب آپ دنیا میں قدم رکھتے ہیں ، جب آپ دن میں رہتے ہیں تو ، آپ کو معلوم ہوگا ، جب آپ بچوں کے لئے ایک ساتھ ناشتہ کرنا شروع کردیتے ہیں اور دن کا آغاز ہوچکا ہے ، تو آپ کا زیادہ وقت حاضر رہنے کا وقت ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، فوج میں ہمارا چلتا ہوا مذاق ہوتا تھا ، جو آپ کو معلوم ہے ، یہ منصوبہ کبھی بھی دشمن سے پہلے رابطے میں نہیں رہ سکتا ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، آپ صبح اٹھ سکتے ہیں ، دن یہاں ہے ، ہم یہی کر رہے ہیں۔ اور پھر میں بچوں کو بیدار کرتا ہوں اور عمدہ شاٹ کا ارادہ کرتا ہوں ، ٹھیک ہے؟ لیکن آپ کے نیچے کچھ فریم ورک ہے ، آپ کو اس کے ساتھ لچکدار ہونا چاہئے۔ اور یہ ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، بس بس ، بس یہی وجہ ہے کہ میں اس سے پیار کرتا ہوں ، ٹھیک ہے؟

یہی وجہ ہے کہ مجھے انتہا پسندی اور عام زندگی میں زندگی کے اس خیال کو معمول پر لانا پسند ہے ، ٹھیک ہے؟ کیونکہ اس سے ملتے جلتے بہت سارے نمونے ہیں۔ ایسا نہیں ہے ، جیسے کہ میں نے شروع میں ہی کہا تھا ، آگے پیچھے کوئی فیصلہ نہیں ہوتا ہے۔ یہ ایسا نہیں ہے ، “اوہ ، مجھے ان سے زیادہ آسان ہے” یا “میں بس ہوں ، تمہیں معلوم ہے ، ایک رہائشی گھر ماں ہے۔” نہیں ، معذرت ، اسے اپنی زبان سے مکمل طور پر نکالیں ، آپ جانتے ہو۔ یہ سب چیزیں کام میں آتی ہیں کیونکہ ، اور زندگی کسی بھی سیاق و سباق میں ، کسی بھی لمحے ، کسی بھی حالت میں دباؤ ڈال سکتی ہے۔ اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اوزار اور تکنیک اور جس طرح سے ہم اسے دیکھتے ہیں ، یہ دن کے اختتام پر ایک جیسا ہی ہوتا ہے۔ یہ سب ایک جیسا ہے۔

کیٹی: میں مانتا ہوں۔ اور میں ایک اور والدین کے نقطہ نظر پر سوچتا ہوں جس کا شاید یہاں مضبوط تقاضا ہے۔ لہذا میں محبت کرتا ہوں کہ تخلیقی صلاحیت ان بنیادی چیزوں میں سے ایک ہے۔ اور والدین کی حیثیت سے جو میرے لئے ہمیشہ ذہن کی سرفہرست رہتی ہے ، میں اپنے بچوں میں اسے کیسے پالا سکتا ہوں؟ کیوں کہ مجھے اپنی زندگی سے ہی کیا احساس ہوا ہے اور اب میں اپنے سبھی بچوں کے ساتھ کام کر رہا ہوں وہ یہ ہے کہ آپ واقعتا تخلیقی صلاحیتوں کی تربیت نہیں کر سکتے ہیں اور نہ ہی آپ تخلیقی صلاحیت کو واضح طور پر تشکیل دے سکتے ہیں۔ اور اگر کچھ بھی ہے تو ، بوریت تخلیقی صلاحیتوں کا بہترین استاد معلوم ہوتا ہے۔ لیکن آج بہت سارے بچوں کو بور ہونے کا موقع نہیں ملتا ہے۔ انہیں ٹائم ٹائم نہیں ملتا ہے کیونکہ وہاں مستقل محرک اور مستقل خواہش ہوتی ہے کہ وہ زیادہ سے زیادہ سیکھیں اور غیر نصابی تعلیمات میں بہتر ہوں اور ان کی پلیٹ میں اتنا جوان ہے۔ لہذا میں جاننا چاہتا ہوں کہ آپ نے کیا دیکھا ہے اور اگر اس پر کوئی تحقیق ہے اور پھر آپ اسے والدین کی حیثیت سے بچوں کے ساتھ تخلیقی صلاحیتوں کو فروغ دینے میں مدد کرنے کے لئے کس طرح تشریف لے جاتے ہیں اگر آپ انہیں مقصد سے بور ہونے دیں یا یہ کیسے کام کرتا ہے۔

جیف: ہاں۔ میرے خیال میں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، یہ اس کی طرف جاتا ہے ، یہ سب کچھ یہاں مماثلت پانے والا ہے ، ٹھیک ہے؟ لہذا اگر میرے ماحول میں میرا کوئی رہنما رہتا ہے جو ہمیشہ ہمیں یہ بتاتا ہے کہ ہمیں کیا کرنا ہے ، اسے کیسے کرنا ہے ، چیزیں کیسے انجام دی جائیں گی ، آپ جانتے ہو ، میں فائر سروس میں اپنے دنوں میں واپس جاتا ہوں ، میں لوگوں سے کہوں گا ، سنو ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اگر آپ مثال کے طور پر ٹرک چلا رہے ہیں تو ، آپ کا ایک انتہائی اہم کردار ہے اور دوسری منزل تک سیڑھی حاصل کرنے کے لئے ان میں سے ایک کردار ہے۔ کیونکہ اگر میں عملہ کو اندر لے جا رہا ہوں تو ، مجھے عمارت سے باہر نکلنے کے قابل ہونے کی ضرورت ہے ، ٹھیک ہے؟ اگر یہ آگ لگی ہوئی ہے تو ، ہمیں ایک مسئلہ ہے۔ مجھے باہر جانا ہے

اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ڈرائیور میں باہر سے تنہا ہونے کی وجہ سے ، باہر کی جگہ میں کسی قسم کے بیرونی ماحول کو کنٹرول کیا جاتا ہے۔ اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، سیڑھی ہلکی نہیں ہے اور ان کا انتظام کرنا آسان نہیں ہے۔ وہ بوجھل ہوسکتے ہیں اور پھر صورتحال اور ڈھلوان اور ہر چیز کو دیکھتے ہوئے ، اور میں صرف اپنے لڑکوں سے کہوں گا ، “سنو ،” میرے لوگوں سے کہو ، “اس سے کوئی فرق نہیں پڑتا ہے کہ یہ کیسا لگتا ہے ، مجھے صرف اس کی ضرورت ہے۔ ” تمہیں معلوم ہے. Yes, there’s technique and yes, there’s proper way to do that and there’s the correct way to do things. But if I don’t give the freedom and flexibility to my people to operate, right, the ability for them to see what’s going on, make their own choices, navigate their own roads, knowing the result we need to produce, then I’m really failing them as a leader.

And the same thing goes to my kids. If I’m telling them when I need them to do it, how they need to do it. It’s like the girls, you know, the girls were there back to online school. Things are kicking back up this week. There’s a little bit more requirements now in place, even though they’re not physically in school. And we talked about it, how do I support you? What does that look like? And they both said to me, “I don’t need to be micromanaged. I don’t need you to tell me when, you know, what to do. But I do need support in like you being the dad saying, ‘Okay, we’re all gonna, it’s work time now. You guys go work on school and I’m gonna go work, you know, on the business.’” “Okay, cool.”

So creating the parameters and kind of the left and right limits to accomplishing something rather than structuring out what they need to do. And then, you know, did you do this and did you do that? You know, one of the things that we do with little man is we really try to just, again, create space. It’s like, “Do you wanna go play in your room?” “Yeah.” “Okay, cool.” And that’s it, right? I don’t need to go any further. Do you wanna play with this toy or this toy? No, I think we tend to over options are kids, right? What was the book ”Apathy of Options?” Have you ever read that?
Katie: I haven’t.

Jeff: Yeah. We tend to over options our kids and then they don’t know what to do and then they don’t have…they don’t know how to make their own choice. They’re making a choice based on what we’re providing them. And it’s the same in adults. It’s the same in this place. It’s like how do I foster creativity? I give the space for creativity to unfold and that is individualized, that’s not directed, that’s not staged. And I actually take options away from them rather than put more options in front of them. And it’s feels kind of counterintuitive. But when you do that, they really start to like, okay, wait a minute. You know, okay, I need to figure something out here. And they begin to satisfy themselves, not satisfy me as the parent or me as the leader. And that’s a unique space that I’ve seen unfold pretty well, if that translates or make sense to you.

Katie: Yeah, no, that’s…I love that answer. And another like parenting note that I have a feeling has a pretty good tie in here is I’m so curious your approach in what you’ve seen in research on letting kids take risks. Because this is another thing that I think has changed really drastically even since I was a kid and certainly since my parents were kids, is kids being able to do activities that are considered risky or play unsupervised or ride their bikes more than, you know, without the seeing distance of their house. And I’ve written about this a little bit.

Like, my opinion is that it can be a disservice to our kids if we overprotect them and they don’t get those opportunities for learning to work through things on their own for minor injuries, for taking risks and failing because a lot of kids get to adulthood, haven’t had to face actual failure or any really severe natural consequences of natural failure. So I’m probably on the one extreme was the mom who’s sending my kids out to climb trees and encouraging them to climb things and jump off things and whatever. But I’m curious, A, what the research says, and B, how you navigate that?

Jeff: Yeah, so I think the one of the research papers I read, I don’t know, maybe a couple of years ago, came out where they did a whole study on like rough housing and the development of emotional intelligence in children, right? And so, which was, and it didn’t, you know, sex wasn’t, not, doesn’t matter, boys or girls. But really more, you know, timely and proper kind of rough housing play with children actually begins to build their resiliency process, begins to build their decision making skills. They actually begin to establish the boundaries of what’s okay and not okay for them. You know what I mean? And so there’s this listening dynamic and I see this, you know, this is part of like growing up over 12 years, right, between my last one and then, little man, you know. I can see what the girls where I was definitely over protective.

I was always, you know, trying to catch them. If they fell I’m like rushing over, are you okay? Are you okay? You know, and all these things and then it creates this timidness in them, you know. I see where they’re a little bit more anxious and I’ve gotta be responsible for that if I’ve created anxiety in them by me overreacting to them or not giving them the space to kind of sort it out. Whereas today, I only come to the, you know, “come to the rescue” when Decklan’s hurt, you know what I mean? Or the possibility of that. And even then giving him a little bit of space to sort himself out. If he like, I don’t know, falls or something, it’s kinda like I instinctually, I don’t fight my instinct and kind of pause back and wait to see, let him process through what just happened. Do the self-assessment, am I hurt, am I bleeding? You know, there are any leaks going on right now about what’s going on for me right now. And then what do I feel about this?

One of the major things we’ve committed to with him is we never tell them it’s okay. Like we’ve extracted, we just completely removed that from our vocabulary because we don’t know. Well, maybe he’s not okay. I don’t know. He can’t articulate that yet. And I think as parents we often…we wanna come to the rescue, we wanna protect our kids, we wanna create safety for them, but we’re actually not, we’re creating spaces of questionable, I don’t know, am I okay? Is it okay to not to be okay right now? All these fundamental things that go into, you know, what I believe creates confidence in a human being, which is the ability to self-regulate, self-manage, self-assess, and then speak, you know, in some ways speak our truth, if you will. And that may be crying or maybe upset or, and that may just be like, Oh.

I mean, I’m amazed at this kid given the space from a fall that I would be like, Oh, this is gonna be a major one. He gets up, brushes it off, like, you know, trucks onto something else. But I gave him the space to sort it out and the freedom to experience whatever he was experiencing there. And if he’s upset or hurt, then I come over. I give him a hug. I’m like, “I got you bud. You know you’re safe. I got you.” I don’t ever say you’re okay because he’s not. And then if he’s done something and he’s upset at something that I don’t…that doesn’t really have a framework for it or like an anchor point for me, it’s like, okay. And it causes me to now be curious about his experience or what’s going on for him. And that’s an opportunity as a parent to help him maybe begin to navigate things for himself, not through my view or my lens, if that…yes, if that answers your question.

Katie: That absolutely does. ہاں I think that’s a helpful strategy to have on hand and a good reframing of not trying to tell them that it’s okay or to frame the experience for them, but to help them learn the tools to work through it themselves. I think that’s a really, really important point.

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I’ve also heard you mentioned in past podcast a couple of things I’d love for you to define and walk us through those being the 10-foot rule and the 30-degree rule.

Jeff: Okay. Okay. ہاں So this goes back to presence, right? This kind of all goes back to absolutely being present, not getting too far out in front of each other. So, you know, I talk about like the 10-foot rule, which is, that’s kinda my span of control. If I get past 10-feet in any environment, you know, I have no control over that. And, you know, if I’m going into a burning building or I’m dealing with a crisis or I’m dealing with things as they are, that’s about the span I’ve got around me to really kind of deal with what I need to deal with. When I creep past that, now I’m in…I can, but I need to be aware that I’m creeping past it. I need to be aware that I’m really now getting into a more predictive state, right? I’m future casting. I’m dealing with things that have not happened or may not happen yet.

And so if I do that too much, if I live outside of 10-feet, then I’m never really present to what’s actually happening and I’m not dealing with the conditions as they exist. I’m dealing with them in some idea of how I want them to be or how I think they should be or how they might happen or how it might unfold. So I’m really dealing with false data at that point in time. When I can stay within kind of my 10-foot rule, then I’m actually present to what’s actually taking place. And then this goes to kind of the 10-degree or 30-degree rule, which I say, you know, you move into the environment and I’m adjusting 10 degrees left or right based on the conditions as they exist.

So for instance, I use this example in my teaching because it was relevant. If I go to a house fire, I show up, I’ve got a two-story single family home, heavy fire from the second floor. I kind of do my walk around. I look outside, I see what’s going on. I collect as much information as I can, but I know the minute I stepped through the front door, the conditions have changed. And now new information coming at me. I now know how hot it is or you know where the fire may be located or how far it may be progressing. I began to really get in touch with what’s going on in the sensations of the environment, what the environment is telling me.

And you know, maybe my job is to locate with seal fire or do a search for victims that that doesn’t change. My mission doesn’t change, but how I go about accomplishing that task will depend upon the conditions and the allowance that I have in the conditions of the environment. Does that, you know, so I’m able to kind of more flow through what’s taking place rather than like, Nope, I gotta do this and I’m gonna push through and I’m gonna drive through and I’m going to own this thing. It’s, if I’m not present, then I can get myself in trouble significantly. In my world, you know, trouble means serious injury, possible death, you know, and then I’m not… and effectiveness is dropping significantly. So if I get outside kind of the 10-foot span around me or the three-foot span around me, depending upon what’s going on or I’m not present and I’m not kind of like, okay, I can go left, I can go right. Minor adjustments. I’m not coming off my mission, I’m not coming off my cast or my purpose or my intention, but I am available to what’s taking place and now I’m working with the environment rather than forcing an outcome.

That’s, I mean I had, so that’s a daily practice with the kids, right? I mean, working with them and not trying to force an outcome. That’s like the…that’s the translation for me. And that’s the, again, kind of the checks. And you can see the reaction of them. I think you see this in your own kids, right? When you step into that place, the more rigid you become, the more resistance you have back at you. At least that’s what I tend to experience and I’m sure, with six, you do as well.

Katie: Absolutely. ہاں Another thing I think you’ve touched on, but I’ve got on my list to ask you about is the top five fractures in performance that are relevant across the board. So walk us through that.

Jeff: All right. So first one is always and definitely has been a perception of my own abilities and this is a huge breakdown point. This is a place where we often drop the ball almost right off the bat. You know, and if you look from like my world, if you have an operator, you have somebody going out operating in the mission and they’re questioning themselves, right? They’re unsure of themselves, then that’s going to begin to break down their ability to perform, their ability to see things, read the conditions, be open to what’s taking place along the way. And really then, you know, we start to see kind of this fracture and performance.

I mean, I think we all…I’ve never met a person, I don’t care out of what community they’ve come from, whether they’re, you know, a dev group, guys, seal team, six guy, Delta operator or, you know, the best of the best out there. There will always come a point in time where they question their own ability, right? They have a lingering voice in the back of their head. They’re just not 100% sure of themselves in that moment. And that is huge. Just a huge breakdown, right?

Number two, we see fall into complacency or what I kind of call the common state. This is where we take our foot off the gas. We really stopped paying attention to things. We start making a lot of assumptions about the situation or the environment or the people around us. We really kind of just, well, we basically check out of what’s going on.

The third one is always interesting because the third one deals with fear. And so I classify fear that fear can’t exist in the present moment. Fear doesn’t exist. You know, in a firefight, fear doesn’t exist. In a working fire, fear doesn’t exist. I may have excitement, I may have a state of arousal, but it is not fear. Fear only shows up as a future point in time of something that may happen or may not happen.

And then when I allow that fear to collide in the present, I can end up in a point of panic. You know, I don’t make solid decisions. You know, I often related to this and this is I think relevant to all of us. You know, and you too, it’s like, have you ever been woken up in the middle of the night by kind of the noise, right? You wake up, something, somebody banged on the front door just…or it’s a bad dream. You don’t really know what got you up, but you are more alert, more aware, like more ready, you know what I mean. If you’re a mom, you’re like, you know, mama bears coming out of your dad or you’re like me. Like you’re grabbing a gun and clearing the house, right? You’re in it. And there’s something that drew you into that moment that is a, what they would classify as emotional, you know, fear-based response, which I hate this word, but that is a high state of arousal. Your body’s moving into action, giving you what you need in that moment in time.

Now here comes the question. After you validated that there wasn’t anything, everybody’s safe. Everybody’s good. You go crawl back in bed. How quickly can you go back to sleep? And most times we’re kind of stuck. Now, we hear every little creak and crack and noise and we’re hypersensitive the environment. And what we’re doing in that state is we’re generating this kind of fear response. We’re generating this physical response of preparedness in ourselves. And if something then were to happen and this is, you know, relevant to my world, but then if something were to happen, I’ve kind of already put myself in a weird condition and I’m inhibiting my body from doing what it needs to do and then panic collides and then I’m incapable. I can’t function in that space. And so I’m not working with my body.

Number four is not being open to the idea, right? This is a lack of openness. Openness is a huge component of really carrying a powerful mindset or whatever you wanna call it. Open to the idea that things could happen. You know, I say if you’re, if you get in the car and drive down the road and you have no expectation and no idea that you could ever get in a car accident, that’s just like not in your frame of reference. And that’ll never happen. And I’m not worried about it. You know, and then if it does happen, what then physiologically causes, you know, it is a new event. It is an unfamiliar event, and you were unprepared for it. And so you’re caughtoff guard or your reaction time slows or your decision making slows or your perception of that slows. So just simply, you know, the lack of openness in this space and open to the idea that things could happen or might happen without generating fear is really the fourth one.

And then the fifth one is, and this is true across the board, it is how I allow the influencers or stressors of my day to impact me. And it goes back to what we talked about earlier, the lack of being recoverable, the lack of, you know, literally being disciplined enough that when I can’t find my car keys and I find them, I actually allow myself to settle for a minute and be like, okay, I got my car keys and then transition to the next moment. Not, I can’t find my car keys. Where is my car keys? Okay, I got them now let’s keep going, right? It’s that control mechanism. And when I give up that control mechanism of how things were impacting me, I fall into the stacking effect. And then, you know, things compound and I find myself kind of in a crap show at some point in time. I find myself in the chaos rather than, you know, being calm in the chaos.

So those are the five, those are the five that consistently without fail. If I look at a failure performance or a fracture in performance or things not going the way we want them to go almost every time, one of those five or multiple of those five are clearly defined and existing in this space.

Katie: Yeah. That’s so helpful. Yes. To just have a framework to be able to work through like that. And I can’t believe our time has already flown by so quickly. This has been such a fun interview. A couple questions I love to ask at the end, the first being if there’s a book or a number of books that have had a dramatic impact on your life and if so, what are they and why?

Jeff: Yeah, so, you know, you had sent that to me so I had to go back and look because books for me are like timely really, right? They tend to show up when you need them. But I would say probably some of the more recent ones that I think have really helped me make transition between my old life and the life I now live. One was ”Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself” by Joe Dispenza. I really appreciated the way he approached looking at ourselves, this idea of calmness, this idea of physiological response because he took both a very scientific and, you know, almost esoterical approach to how we deal with ourselves. And a lot of evidence-based research in there. I guess his first book about the brain was ”Super Brainiac”. I’ve not read that yet. I would probably enjoy it. But you know, from the way he lays it out, most people were kind of like, “Okay, Joe, too much information.” But that was a pretty significant, pretty significant book for me in a lot of ways.

And then early on, early on in my career, I had the opportunity you know, big failure leadership I talked about on my podcast and I use it in all my teaching tools. But I read Daniel Goldman’s ”Primal Leadership” where he breaks down six distinct styles from affiliate of all the way down to the other end of the spectrum of like pace setting and commanding. And at that time I could see where I lived in this pace setting, commanding style of leadership, which we can get into very easily as parents. You know, kind of like, “Hey, we gotta go, here’s the deal. This is what we gotta do.” And I’m setting the pace and I’m commanding environment.

And, you know, it was funny because I had, I mean I virtually had like a mutiny on the crew. They basically came down to Jeff’s a jerk, him or me, we’re out. We’re not gonna deal with this anymore. And the way he articulated when he laid it down in the book, he talked about the great benefits of the commanding style leadership and the pace setting style leadership and driving to the car like, “I’m gonna turn around, I’m gonna sit everybody down, they’re gonna listen to this because I’m right.” And then he talks about all the negativity of it and how it should be used in a very finite point in time and how it should be limited. And I just started to almost tear up at like, “Crap, he’s right, I’m not going back,” you know. And it was a good call out book for me and what I needed to be responsible for and how I needed to kind of shift my architecture.

So those are good. And then like you said, you know, Ryan Holiday stuff, ”Ego is the Enemy.” And even Mark Manson stuff is really great. So I’m avid reader. I love to read people’s research and then I actually look at the research that they found that, you know, built a book around as well. I’m a little bit of a geek that way. But I would say, you know, those are pretty applicable across the board and know those are pretty significant for how we operate in our normal lives as well.

Katie: I love those. I’ll make sure those are in the show notes at for any of you guys listening who went to find those. And for people who want to keep learning more or who are curious about your work, where can they find you online?

Jeff: Yeah, so the podcast is ”Mindset Radio.” It’s, and that’s actually provided by, through the Operational Mindset Foundation. So that’s my life now. I really committed to creating a pathway to mentally, physically and emotionally prepare the men and women who choose to place themselves in harm’s way every day. I think we’ve…having come from that community. The conversations you have on your podcast are new to this community, right? I mean they’re still stuck in the old school stuff. And my purpose was really bring a new conversation to the table to talk about consciousness, to talk about the struggles that we have. The things we’re exposed to, how to deal with that, how to really have a full life both on and off the job. And so now the foundation, is it and the podcast is a are available on all the platforms.

Katie: Perfect. I love that. And lastly, any parting advice you wanna leave with the listeners today based on anything we’ve said or any other advice that you’d wanna give?

Jeff: Yeah, I mean I think the way I treat, you know, I run my show very much like you do Katie, you know, very conversational and I have a belief that people that listen to a podcast, need to have something they can do like the minute it’s over. And so I try to leave my listeners with like the challenge out of that piece. And I would say, you know, today, presence, right? And really work the breath today. Like be hyper present to your breath and what’s going on right now. Be curious, be curious about yourself, curious about your kids, curious about the situation and stay there like just hover there. Just you know, and if you feel yourself getting too far forward, too far to dinner, too far to the next day, too far to the next week, be curious as to why that is, why you need to feel that way, what that provides for you and just no judgment, right? No right or wrong. You’re not doing anything wrong, you’re not bad, none of that. Just curious. Just be curious, be present and see what shows up. That would be what I would say.

Katie: I love it. I think that’s a perfect place to wrap up and I’m really grateful for your time. This has been such a fun conversation and hopefully helpful to everyone listening. Thanks for being here.

Jeff: Thanks Katie.

Katie: And thanks as always to all of you for sharing your most valuable asset, your time with both of us today. We’re so grateful that you did, and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the ”Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

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