Fecal Microbiota Transfer (FMT) for Gut Health


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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Healthy Mama Podcast. I’m from KatieWellinsma.com And this event can go deep on a topic you are not familiar with or perhaps, probably. , Haven’t tried. I am here with Dr. Jason Klopp, who has been working in the field of digestive health and microbiome rehabilitation for many years. During her time there, she focused on conditions that were not responding to pharmaceutical interventions, such as irritable bowel syndrome, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, and aggravation of small intestinal bacteria, which otherwise Known as SEBO.

Dr. Klopp has learned that the basis of all health is in the gut, and through his extensive experience has incorporated FMT with great results. And it has expanded its focus on offering this treatment to children with autism and autism symptoms. Now, if you don’t know what FMT is, you’re not alone. It’s a new and somewhat treatable treat, and he’ll explain what it is, how it works, and some of the amazing results he’s been seeing. So, without further ado, let’s join Dr. Jason Klopp.

Katie: Dr. Clop, welcome to come and thank you.

Dr. Jason: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me, and I am excited to share.

Katie: I’m excited to jump in with you because you’re an expert on a topic I don’t know much about, but I’m pretty much fascinated by it. And, I mentioned something called FMT in the introduction, but I left it confusing. And so, I think this is where we need to start. Can you explain what FMT is, and basically, what are some ways you can use it?

Dr. Jason: Perfect, yes. The only big question we have to start with is to let all the listeners really figure out what FMT really means. So, this means a fecal microbiota transplant. And, if you break the type, words, or words, it makes sense. But, in essence, what we have is, we have identified donors who are extremely healthy who meet very strict standards about what they look like healthy, both of which are from a medical history perspective. Apart from stool and blood screening. So, if they, you know, get it all, then we know they have a healthy gut microbiome, which is like the microbiota part. And then, we have a patient who is sick or who is sick, and you ask me, “Well, who do we usually work with?”

Well, traditionally FMT is only used in them, you know, in the US and Canada, for patients who are C-Dfile, or at least this is the only approved use. Outside of that, though, there is plenty of evidence of really compe compulsion for other conditions, such as crones, ulcerative colitis, IBS, and I almost exclusively work with autism sufferers, and this list to be continued. Basically, in any case where you know that gut microbiota has a lot of gut dysfunction or problems. So, with this healthy patient, we have a very sick patient, or not always very sick, but we know they have intestinal disturbances and consequently have symptoms. We take stock of this healthy donor, it goes through a processing, a lab processing, which, as you know, has beautiful standards associated with it. And it has been implanted in a patient who is ill, and has several administration routes, an oral route, a… you know, and they call it down, which is an enema, or a colonic prescription. Therefore, these are the main ways of administration. And so, this is the basic premise, you know, you have someone who is really great, a great hood, there is no one who takes you with a really big intestine, you They process the bodily substances, and you really end up with a lot of concentrated bacteria, and then, the mechanism is then transplanted into the patient.

Katie: That makes sense. And it’s amazing to me, I know we’ve done all this research, and we know how important the intestine is. In fact, I think that as much research comes out, it is clear that gut health is linked to or regulates every other aspect of health. And so, I think it’s amazing that now we can use technology and science to do things like that, but I think there’s still more, when people first think about it. Listen, it’s a bit like, “What now?” Something like that. But, let’s get a little deeper on how we can see such a strong impact in the gut with such a procedure.

Dr. Jason: Sure. And you’re really good. I mean, when people hear what I do, they go to two different camps. A camp is like, “I have no clue who you are talking about and it looks awful.” And the other camp is like, “Wow, this is so interesting. How do I get one,” or, “How can I know more about it?” So really, it’s like that. And, I think, you know, there are a lot of misconceptions about it, and a lot of people think it’s a dirty, dirty process, and then it’s smelly and all those other things, I’m not like that. General Chat Chat Lounge You know, once it goes into lab processing, then it’s something that turns out to be pure, and really quite clear. I was actually meeting with a researcher in Copenhagen and someone who manages the lab there, and we’re just collaborating on some things, and who use the capsule, you can still see the color of the substance. As they can see, they are double-capitalized. And, they initially said, they were worried about what people might think when they could actually see the color inside the capsule. And then, he told me, “Well, you know, if they weren’t willing to take these capsules, seeing the colors, they wouldn’t be so sick,” which is a really good point. So yes, this is normal. Now you’re getting into the question. I know I was a bit off-topic here. What specifically did you want to know?

Katie: I like that you want to go deeper, kind of, what kind of results are you seeing with this clinic? Because, like I said, I definitely understand the whole probiotic, the prebiotic, through my research, all the things that matter to the gut, but I think it’s a whole different level, and you deserve Maybe making things more complicated probably has a big impact. So, what kind of results are you seeing with it?

Dr. Jason: Sure. And, to comment a bit on the probiotics angle, to date there has been no research that shows us that there are actually maps. So, what does engagement mean when you’re giving some of these probiotic strains, you’re putting them in the body, but in reality none of them stick. So, as they go through the system, they have a temporary effect, which can be good, which can be important, at least for the time being. But then, if you check later, you will never find that stress has increased. So, for example, I have patients who have spent two years trying to produce all kinds of probiotics out there, say they are lactobacillus or bifido. And, after two years, they are completely disappointed because the levels are not rising. And, of course, there is a difference between probiotics and all those extra enterprises. They can be good, and they can really be the result of some changes in symptoms, but none of them can stick around. And, the main difference between probiotics and FMT is that we are taking these microbiota from a healthy human. We strive to maximize the gut before transplanting, and then, when we test later, we can see that these specific stresses for which we can at least test, Can go up, and at the same time improve the symptoms.

So, what am I watching? I mean, I told you a little out of the air that I work with a lot of autism, and that’s why it’s a fundamental part of my job now. I used to work with a lot of variations, some of which I mentioned before, like IBS, IBD, and some neurological symptoms, and so on. So, these are the main areas that I experience, though before I get into them, I want to mention the difference because I think that is really important again, as we talk about it. Doing, that people think it’s really only approved in Canada and the US for the C draft, though, there are other ways to get it, you know, whatever work I do, Helping people who do not fall into this category. But, with difficulty, there is a lot of research. In research, the cure for csfile treatment is higher than 90% after only one or two treatments with FMT. So, unusually effective, and in all this research, very safe and very well tolerated, are two areas that I think are very important, you know, when doing this kind of treatment. Decide to use. Therefore, this is the case with C’s inconvenience.

Otherwise, they are really different. For children with autism at Arizona State University, you know, best of all, you know, for kids with autism. And, in this study, they actually dealt with these children for eight weeks using FMT. They had already cleaned the intestines along with vancomycin, which is similar to what we do. And, after 8 weeks, they examined 8 weeks of daily FMT treatment, they checked in 18 weeks and found 80% improvement in digestive symptoms, and about 25% improvement in autism symptoms. Millie, as it may look. Anxiety, or hyperactivity, or sleep disturbances, or cognitive challenges, and language problems. So, they saw a 25% improvement in it. And then, 2 years later, they followed up again at that location, and they found that digestive symptoms were 80% improvement, which was huge anyway. These children with autism are, in many cases, very weak and have severe GI symptoms. And then, for the last 2 years, they have seen a 20% improvement in the symptoms associated with autism. Therefore, at 8 weeks of treatment, GI symptoms improved by 80% and autism-related symptoms improved by 2% at 2-year check-in.

So, what this tells us is that in eight weeks, you know, improves gut function, this treatment is not just lasting, so it’s not like a probiotic, let’s say, When you stop it, it stops working, and the improvements you see continue to build over time. Now, one of the things we do is a little different than this study, we actually treat it for longer, so we’ve doubled it, so we do 16 weeks of treatment. And, I would say that our results are on parity, maybe in some areas of this study, there will be more, and, in my view, mainly because we are expanding the length of treatment. So those are the important things. I mean, I could talk to my kids about some of the stories, some of the stories and things that I see, but it’s a really good study, from a research point of view, what they’ve seen, To help explain.

Katie: This is really fascinating and especially intriguing, I know there are a lot of speculations and research about autism that are related to the gut, so that makes sense. And, you can do this with the kids, which is incredible, and to see such stats changes is a kind of hearing in this field. I just want to go over the C draft for a second, on a personal note. So, my husband, his appendix exploded years ago, and he got a CF infection, which was after his surgery internally. And then, he dealt with intestinal issues for years and eventually had a SEBO. And, finally, now, I’ve got everything under control, but it’s unbelievable to know that it’s really acceptable to anyone who has a difference. This is an important point, I want to make sure that we only highlight that for anyone who really has this condition.

Dr. Jason: Yes. The only small quality here, which I honestly don’t believe is a crime against humanity, is that, you have to go through three cycles, and three cycles of traditionally stringent antibiotics fail. And places like you. Failed all three of these cycles, then you can use FMT. So, in the treatment, using all three of these cycles, it can do a lot of harm to people. And, that is why your husband later discontinued the SEBO development because he had to use different antibiotics. Now, it had a torn appendix, so, I mean, yeah, you absolutely need antibiotics. I’m not suggesting that people should not use them, but whenever you use antibiotics, you are damaging your gut microbiome and you are increasing the likelihood that you will somehow Are going to create a disease that is linked to the poor. Gut Diversity As we continue to research, almost every chronic illness is somehow linked to intestinal discomfort.

And so, yes, it is very effective, however, you need to use antibiotics three times first and do not have to work in any of these three times, then you can do FMT. And, at this point, you know, one, these people can be in severe pain, diarrhea, and bleeding, and all sorts of things, and, within a day or two, they are right on the track. Are. So, this is really unusual. And, I personally wish people didn’t have to try three times, maybe once, or maybe not even make a choice. But, anyway, these are the standards we have to adhere to.

Katie: Wow, yeah, that’s definitely disappointing. So, I know that when someone comes to you and you are working with them on any of these possibilities, it looks like a process, you want their body to How do you prepare, and what does the procedure look like? , How will they maintain it?

Dr. Jason: Sure. Big question So yes, I really believe that there is something here, as much as possible, try to improve the gut, if you like, treat it. Now, a lot of times, why are people choosing to do FMT because they don’t have the many good bacteria they want. And so, they’re saying, “Well, I don’t have a lot of things I want, I want to keep it there.” But, the challenge is that there are so many other things we don’t want out there, because you know, having a healthy gut microbiome means that it can handle the environment, and maintain infectious things. Bacteria, and fungi, and other things are in check.

However, this does not happen if you do not have gut diversity and are very healthy bacterial strains, and this causes a wide variety of bacterial populations. Sometimes, they are just consuls, they are inside the body, they are healthy, there are a lot of these options. The same thing in the aspect of the fungus, it can be a very similar thing. آپ کے جسم اور کینڈیڈا میں فنگس رہنا معمول کی بات ہے ، جب یہ آپ کو بہت زیادہ ہوجاتا ہے تو آپ علامتی علامات لینا شروع کردیتے ہیں اور پریشانی پیدا ہوجاتی ہے۔ لہذا ، اس وجہ سے ، کہ ہم ایف ایم ٹی کرنے سے پہلے ، ہم اس سلیٹ کو کسی طرح سے صاف کرنا چاہتے ہیں ، اگر آپ چاہیں ، اور بوجھ کی مقدار کو کم کرنے یا بڑھنے کی مقدار کو کم کرنے کی کوشش کریں۔

اور بعض اوقات ، ہم اس بات کا بہتر اندازہ حاصل کرنے کے لئے اسٹول ٹیسٹنگ کریں گے کہ واقعتا there وہاں کیا ہے اور قبل از علاج عمل کے ایک حصے کے طور پر ہمیں کس طرح کی مداخلت کو شامل کرنے یا اس پر غور کرنے کی ضرورت ہے ، لیکن آخر کار ، اس میں قدرتی طور پر کسی قسم کا انسداد مائکروبائیل شامل ہوتا ہے۔ ، یہ ایک یا دو ہوسکتا ہے۔ اکثر اوقات ، ہم بایوسڈن کا استعمال کرتے ہیں ، بصورت دیگر ، اس میں اکثر اوقات خاص طور پر آٹزم والے بچوں کے ساتھ وینکومیسن شامل ہوتا ہے۔ ایریزونا کے مطالعے میں وینکومیسن کو پہلے سے علاج کے طور پر بھی استعمال کیا جاتا ہے ، لیکن بہت ساری دیگر مطالعات میں ، یہ ایسی بات ہے کہ لوگوں کے اس شعبے میں جو ایف ایم ٹی کے ساتھ کام کرتے ہیں اکثر اس سے پہلے بھی شامل ہوچکے ہیں ، اور اس سے واقعی حد سے زیادہ اضافہ ہوتا ہے۔

اور اسی طرح ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، کچھ لوگ کبھی کبھی مجھ سے کہتے ہیں ، “ٹھیک ہے ، میں واقعتا کسی بھی قسم کے کام کرنے کے خلاف ہوں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اینٹی مائکروبیلس یا اینٹی بائیوٹکس ،” جس کو میں پوری طرح سمجھتا ہوں۔ اور سوال یہ ہے کہ کیا ہمیں ان اقسام کا علاج پہلے ہی کرنا چاہئے؟ اور ، عام طور پر ، جس طرح سے میں اس کی وضاحت کرتا ہوں وہ یہ ہے ، جب ہم ایف ایم ٹی کر رہے ہیں ، تو ہم پہاڑ پر چڑھنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں۔ اور جب پہاڑ بہت کم گڑھے ، اور پتھر ، اور کھڑی حصے ، اور چٹانوں پر چڑھنے میں بہت آسان ہے ، جو عموما the بڑھ جانا ہوتا ہے۔ لہذا ، اگر ہم چڑھنے کو آسان بنائیں تو پہاڑ کی چوٹی پر پہنچنے اور علامات میں ریلیف دیکھنے کا ہمارے امکانات زیادہ ہونے کا امکان ہے۔ اور جب ہم سلیٹ صاف کریں گے تو چڑھنے میں آسانی ہوگی۔ لہذا ، عام طور پر ، یہی ہوتا ہے ، ہم کچھ معاملات میں پرجیویوں ، اور کینڈیڈا ، اور کچھ بھی ہو ، بیکٹیریا کی کثرت سے نجات حاصل کر رہے ہیں۔

اور پھر ، اس کے فورا بعد ، ہم ایف ایم ٹی سے شروع کریں۔ اب ، ایف ایم ٹی کرنے سے ٹھیک کچھ معاملات میں ، اگر ہم بچوں یا بڑوں کے ساتھ ، بڑوں کے ساتھ کام کر رہے ہیں تو ، ہم عام طور پر انہیں معمولی تیز رفتار سے کام لیتے ہیں ، اکثر 24 گھنٹے سے 48 گھنٹے کی تیز رفتار رہتے ہیں۔ ایک بار پھر ، روزے سے بیکٹیریا کو ختم کرنے میں مدد ملے گی۔ اور پھر ، اس کے بعد وہ آنتوں کو صاف کرتے ہیں ، لہذا ہم ان کو اور طرح سے صاف کرتے ہیں ، عام طور پر میگنیشیم استعمال کرتے ہیں ، اور خوراک میں اس حد تک اضافہ ہوتا ہے جہاں ان کے پاس ڈھول ہوتے ہیں۔ تو یہ پہلو والا حصہ ہے ، اور پھر ، آپ جانتے ہو ، علاج کا حصہ پھر سے ہے ، حالت اور باقی ہر چیز پر منحصر متغیرات موجود ہیں۔ لیکن ، صرف آٹزم کے ساتھ کام سے متعلق یہ ہے کہ ، ہم ایک بڑی لوڈنگ خوراک کے ساتھ شروعات کرتے ہیں۔ لہذا ، یہ شروع میں بیکٹیریوں کی ایک بڑی مقدار ہے ، یا تو کیپسول کے ذریعہ یا ینیما کے ذریعے ، اور پھر ، دو دن کی لوڈنگ ڈوز کے بعد ، ہم صرف ایک روزانہ ، کافی کم ، بحالی خوراک لے کر جاتے ہیں۔ اب ، جب میں کم بولتا ہوں تو ، یہ روزانہ 2.5 ارب بیکٹیریا کی طرح ہوتا ہے۔ جو اعلی نہیں ہے لیکن پھر بھی کافی زیادہ ہے۔ اور ہم اگلے 16 ہفتوں تک ایسا کرتے ہیں۔

اب ، آپ نے واقعی ایک اچھا سوال پوچھا ، آپ علاج کیسے برقرار رکھتے ہیں؟ ایک دو چیزیں ہیں۔ ایک ، آپ اس بات کو یقینی بنانا چاہتے ہیں کہ آپ وہ کام نہیں کرتے جو اس ٹرانسپلانٹڈ بیکٹیریا کو ختم کردیں گے ، جس سے ہم چاہتے ہیں کہ لوگ ایف ایم ٹی کر چکے ہوں یا نہ کریں۔ لیکن جتنا ممکن ہو سکے اینٹی بائیوٹک ، آپ جانتے ہو ، کھانا کھانے سے جو اس کو نقصان پہنچاتا ہے ، چاہے آپ جہاں ممکن ہو نامیاتی انتخاب کرنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہو ، اور ایسی دوسری قسم کی چیزیں جو ہم جانتے ہیں گٹ مائکرو بائوم کو نقصان پہنچا سکتی ہیں۔ لہذا ، یہ ایک بہت بڑا ہے لیکن شاید اتنا ہی اہم ہے ، ممکنہ طور پر خوراک میں جتنا تنوع پیدا کرنے کی کوشش کی جائے۔ اسی طرح آپ ایک صحت مند آنت مائکرو بایوم کو برقرار رکھتے ہیں ، ایک ہفتہ کے دوران جتنی مختلف کھانوں کو کھا سکتے ہو ، کھا رہے ہیں ، جس طرح سے ہم اسے ڈالتے ہیں۔

لہذا ، بچوں یا یہاں تک کہ ہم جن بالغوں کے ساتھ مل کر کام کرتے ہیں ، ہمارا ہدف یہ ہے کہ ابتدائی طور پر ایک ہفتہ میں 50 مختلف قسم کے کھانے پائے جائیں۔ اور ، اس سے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ایک بار جب وہ 50 کھانے کی اشیاء تک پہنچ سکتے ہیں ، تب ہم ان کو ایک مخصوص ہفتے میں 100 مختلف کھانے کی اشیاء کے لئے گولی مارنے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں۔ اور ، میں تسلیم کروں گا ، یہ مشکل ہے ، یہ آسان نہیں ہے۔ لیکن معیاری امریکی کا کھانا ایک ہفتہ میں 10 سے 15 مختلف کھانے کی طرح کھانا ہے ، جو بہت زیادہ نہیں ہے ، اور اس کے بعد ہمیں یہ بتاتا ہے کہ ، ان کا گٹ مائکرو بائوم متنوع نہیں ہوگا ، جو ایک مسئلہ ہے۔ لہذا ، ایک متنوع گٹ مائکرو بایوم رکھنے کے ل you ، آپ کو بہت ساری مختلف کھانے پینے کی ضرورت ہوگی ، اسی وجہ سے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، میں وہاں بہت ساری غذاوں کے ساتھ معاملہ کرتا ہوں جو عام طور پر محدود ہیں۔

اب ، میں یہ تجویز نہیں کر رہا ہوں کہ آپ کو بہت سارے مختلف جنک فوڈ کھا نا چاہیئے ، کیونکہ اس میں بھی بہت کچھ ہے ، لیکن یہ اتنے ہی مختلف قسم کے کھانے کی چیزیں ہیں جو آپ ممکنہ طور پر کر سکتے ہیں۔ اور ، لوگ ، آپ جانتے ہو ، عام طور پر ایسا ہی ہوتا ہے ، “اوہ ، میں وہی جئی ہی کھاتا ہوں۔” ٹھیک ہے ، کیوں نہیں کہ مختلف اناج آزما رہے ہو ، یا کیوں مختلف قسم کے بیج ، اور گری دار میوے وغیرہ آزما نہیں رہے ہیں۔ تو ، اس کو دوبارہ بڑھانے میں مدد دینے کا ایک بہت بڑا عنصر ہے۔ اور ، جیسا کہ آپ اس گٹ کو شفا بخش شروع کر سکتے ہیں ، اس وقت جب آپ کو آنت کے باہر بھی علامات دیکھنا شروع ہوجائیں گے ، کیونکہ عام طور پر ، عام طور پر ، ہمیں پہلے انہضام میں بہتری نظر آتی ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، یہ اس پر منحصر ہے کہ یہ کتنی جلدی ہوسکتا ہے۔ کچھ معاملات میں ، یہ دو دن ہوں گے جہاں ایک بچہ اسہال ہوتا ، بعض صورتوں میں ، ہر ایک دن میں تین سال ، دو ، تین دن کے اندر ، ایف ایم ٹی ، بینگ ، معمول کے مطابق آنتوں کی حرکت کرتے ہوئے۔

دائمی قبض کی ایک ہی چیز ، ہمارے پاس ایسے معاملات ہیں جہاں وہ ہر دن آنتوں کی حرکت کے ل ene ینیما کررہے ہیں۔ کچھ دن بعد ، باقاعدگی سے آنتوں کی نقل و حرکت جو بغیر جلاب ، کوئی اینیماس ، کچھ نہیں۔ لیکن ، جیسا کہ آپ تصور کرسکتے ہیں ، جیسا کہ یہ آنت ٹھیک ہونے لگتی ہے ، اور ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، گٹ دماغ کے فنکشن کے بارے میں بہت ساری باتیں ہوتی ہیں ، اور ، آپ کو معلوم ہے ، گٹ دماغ کے تعلق کے ساتھ ساتھ ، گٹھے ہوئے گٹ اور سب کچھ اور ٹھیک ہے ، جیسے ہی ہم نے آنتوں کو مندمل کرنا شروع کیا ، ہم پھر بہت سے دوسرے شعبوں میں بہتری دیکھنا شروع کردیتے ہیں۔ اور اس طرح ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، واقعی ، واقعتا prom امید افزا اور ، یقینا that ، جو بھی اس طرح کی علامات کا سامنا کر رہا ہے ، اس کی حوصلہ افزائی کرتا ہے ، اس طرح ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ان نئے گٹ مائکرو بایٹا کا احترام کرتے ہیں کیونکہ وہ اتنے ہی تغیر پزیر ہیں۔ لیکن ، وہ کندہ کاری کرتے ہیں ، لہذا وہ آپ کے مائکرو بائوم کا ایک نیا حصہ بن جاتے ہیں۔

اور ، یہ ایک سوال ہے کہ مجھے بھی بہت کچھ ملتا ہے ، “میں ایک بار یہ کرتا ہوں ، کیا مجھے آنا جاری رکھنا ہے؟” اور ، جواب عام طور پر ہے ، “نہیں ، آپ نہیں کرتے ہیں۔” جب تک آپ گٹ مائکرو بایوم کا احترام کرتے ہیں اور اس کی پرورش اور تعمیر کی کوشش کرتے رہتے ہیں ، آپ کو علاج دوبارہ کرنا جاری رکھنے کی ضرورت نہیں ہوگی۔ اگرچہ ، کچھ شرائط ہوسکتی ہیں جہاں یہ ضروری ہے ، صرف ایک مثال کے طور پر کروہن یا السرسی کولائٹس کو لے کر ، جہاں آپ جانتے ہو ، آپ کسی کو معافی میں ڈال سکتے ہیں ، جو بالکل ہوسکتا ہے۔ لیکن ، جیسے جیسے وقت گذرتا ہے ، شاید کچھ سامنے آجاتا ہے ، یا وہ تناؤ کے دور سے گزرتے ہیں ، یا ان کو اینٹی بائیوٹک ، یا اس طرح کی کچھ چیزوں پر جانے کی ضرورت ہوتی ہے ، ان معاملات میں ، آپ کو صرف علاج کے ایک مختصر پھٹکے پر غور کرنے کی ضرورت پڑسکتی ہے۔ اس گٹ مائکروبیٹا کو دوبارہ فروغ دینے کے ل and ، اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، کسی کو پھر سے ایک بہت بڑا بھڑک اٹھنے سے روکیں۔ تو ، یہ عمومی جائزہ ہے۔

کیٹی: یہ سب سمجھ میں آتا ہے۔ میں روزہ رکھنے کے بارے میں تھوڑا سا اور بات کرنا پسند کروں گا کیونکہ آپ نے بتایا ہے کہ آپ کبھی کبھی اس سے پہلے ہی آنت کی تبدیلی کرتے ہیں جس کی وجہ سے آنت کی تبدیلی ہوتی ہے۔ اور ، میں اپنی زندگی میں روزہ رکھنے کا ایک بہت بڑا پرستار ہوں۔ میں نے کبھی ایف ایم ٹی نہیں کیا ہے ، لیکن میں متجسس ہوں ، محض آپ کے نقطہ نظر اور اپنی تحقیق سے ، آپ کس قسم کے روزے استعمال کر رہے ہیں ، اور لوگ اس میں سے کس قسم کی تبدیلیوں کی توقع کر سکتے ہیں؟

ڈاکٹر جیسن: ضرور۔ لہذا ، میں آپ سے اتفاق کرتا ہوں ، میرے خیال میں روزہ بہت اچھا ہے۔ میرے خیال میں بہت سارے لوگوں کے لئے وقفے وقفے سے روزہ رکھنا بھی کافی حصول ہے ، ایسا کرنا مشکل نہیں ہے۔ اور ، یہ واقعی پورے جسم کو ایک وقفہ دیتا ہے۔ اور ، روزہ رکھنے کے فوائد پر بہت سے مختلف شعبوں میں بہت سی تحقیق ہے۔ تاہم ، جیسا کہ اس کا تعلق ایف ایم ٹی سے ہے ، ہمارا اصل ہدف بیکٹیریا اور فنگس سے مرنا ہے ، اور ایسی چیزیں جو ہم وہاں نہیں چاہتے ہیں۔ اور اس طرح ، یہ واقعتا اس کا ہدف ہے ، اور اس سے بھی زیادہ اضافہ کو کم کرنا۔ لہذا ، ہمارے پاس اینٹی بائیوٹکس ، یا جڑی بوٹیوں کے antimicrobial ، یا دیگر چیزوں کے بارے میں کچھ ہفتوں تک کوئی کورس کرنے کو ہے ، اور پھر ہم نے ان سب کو ایف ایم ٹی شروع کرنے سے پہلے 48 گھنٹے روک دیا ہے۔ اور ، اس کے ساتھ ہمارا بڑا مقصد یہ ہے کہ ہم نہیں چاہتے ہیں کہ ان میں سے کوئی بیکٹیریا ہلاک ہونا شروع کردے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، نیا ٹرانسپلانٹ ہوا بیکٹیریا ہے ، اور پھر ہم انھیں سیدھے دو دن کا روزہ رکھیں گے۔

اگر وہ یہ کام کرسکتے ہیں تو ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اگر ان میں اتنی طاقت اور قوت ہے کہ کچھ لوگ ایسا نہیں کرتے ہیں ، اور پھر ، یقینا young چھوٹے بچے ، میرا مطلب ہے ، کسی چھوٹے بچے سے کھانا رکھنا واقعی مشکل ہے سمجھیں کہ یہ آپ کیا کرنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں۔ لہذا ، بہت سے معاملات میں ، ہم اس سلسلے میں یہ کام نہیں کرتے ہیں ، لیکن جیسا کہ اس کا تعلق ایف ایم ٹی سے ہے ، ہمارا بنیادی مقصد بیکٹیریا کی افزائش کو ختم کرنا ہے ، اسی طرح ، کسی طرح کی چیزوں کو صاف کرنا ہے اور زیادہ جگہ ہے ، اگر تم کروگے. آپ جانتے ہو ، طرح طرح کے ، اس ٹرانسپلانٹڈ بیکٹیریا کے لئے ہوائی قو .ت “جگہ”۔ اور اس کے بعد ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اس تیزی سے ، آپ آنتوں کو صاف کرتے ہیں ، آپ اسے اور بھی صاف کرتے ہیں۔ اور اب ، جب آپ اس بڑی لوڈنگ ڈوز کو کرتے ہیں تو ، اگر آپ ان ٹرانسپلانٹڈ بیکٹیریا کے اندر جانے اور ان کے اثرات مرتب کرنے کے ل real ، بہت ساری قسم کی رئیل اسٹیٹ رکھتے ہیں۔

کیٹی: یہ دلچسپ ہے۔ اور ، ایک اور چیز جس کا آپ نے ذکر کیا کہ میرے خیال میں شاید ہم میں سے کسی کو سننے کے ل great یہ صرف ایک بہت ہی عمدہ مشورہ ہے کہ وہ کھانے میں زیادہ سے زیادہ مختلف قسم کے کھانے ، اور اس سے کہیں زیادہ مختلف غذا کھانے کے بارے میں تھا۔ یہ وہ چیز ہے جس کے بارے میں میں جانتا ہوں کہ میں نے اس کے بارے میں پڑھا ہے کہ ہماری موجودہ غذا میں ، جیسے آپ نے بتایا ہے ، ہم میں سے بہت سے کھانے پینے کی چیزیں اسی طرح کھاتے ہیں۔ اور ، بورڈ میں مائکروونٹریٹینٹ سے لے کر گٹ کے تنوع وغیرہ میں بہت سارے فوائد ہوتے ہیں ، جب ہم کھاتے ہیں جیسے مختلف قسم کے کھانے کی چیزیں۔ کیا یہ وہ چیز ہے جس کی تجویز آپ مریضوں کے ساتھ بھی کرتے ہیں جن کے ساتھ آپ ایف ایم ٹی نہیں کر رہے ہیں؟

ڈاکٹر جیسن: اوہ ، بالکل ، ہاں اور ، یہ واقعی مشکل ہوسکتا ہے۔ جس کا مطلب بولوں: آپ نے پہلے بھی ایس ای بی او کا ذکر کیا تھا۔ ٹھیک ہے ، وہاں SIBO کے لئے مخصوص غذا ہے ، ٹھیک ہے؟ چاہے یہ ایس سی ڈی ہو یا کم ایف او ڈی ایم اے پی ، یا ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اینٹی ایس آئ بی او ، یا جو کچھ غذائیں ہیں ، ان میں بہت کچھ ہے ، اور یقینی طور پر اس میں بہتری آسکتی ہے۔ اور میں ان کی وکالت کرتا ہوں ، لیکن جس کی میں وکالت کرتا ہوں وہ مختصر مدت کے لئے ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہیں ، کچھ لوگ انتہائی پابند غذا کے ساتھ چپکی ہوئی آرام سے رہ جاتے ہیں ، اور یہ اکثر اوقات طویل مدت میں کام نہیں کرتا ہے۔ اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، وہاں ہمیشہ ، طرح طرح کے ، ایسے مٹ .ے ہیں جو پاپ اپ ہو رہے ہیں ، ٹھیک ہے ، جیسے گوشت خور غذا۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، کچھ لوگ خود سے قوت مدافعت اور دیگر شرائط کے خلاف غیر معمولی بہتری دیکھ رہے ہیں۔ لیکن ، میری پریشانی یہ ہے کہ ، طویل عرصے تک ، ان غذاوں کو انجام دے کر اور ان پر عمل پیرا ہونے سے ، آپ گٹ مائکرو بایوم کو اور بھی محدود رکھیں گے۔ اور اس پر انحصار کرتے ہوئے کہ آپ ان کو کس حد تک انجام دے رہے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہو گے ، شاید ان بیکٹیریا کی تعداد کم ہوجائے گی ، اور پھر ، وقت کے ساتھ ، ایک بار جب آپ کھانا دوبارہ پیش کریں گے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، شاید وہ دوبارہ اس سطح پر آجائیں گے۔ جسم کے حامی. کیونکہ ، جسم میں ایک طرح کے ، فنگر پرنٹ موجود ہیں ، اگر آپ کریں گے ، ایک صحت مند آنت مائکرو بایوم کیا ہے ، خاص طور پر اگر آپ کے پاس اپینڈکس ہے۔ تاہم ، آپ جتنی دیر تک پابندی عائد کرتے ہیں اور اس کی پابندی کرتے ہیں ، اس سے یہ مسئلہ اتنا ہی بڑا ہوجاتا ہے کہ اس سے لکیر نیچے آجائے گا۔

لہذا ، ہاں ، میں یقینی طور پر ایک بہت بڑا حامی ہوں کہ کوشش کروں کہ زیادہ سے زیادہ تنوع کھانے میں ہو ، لیکن اس کے باوجود ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اس سے آگے بھی ، مجھے لگتا ہے کہ ہمیں سب کو سب سے پہلے نمبر پر رکھنا چاہئے۔ ہمارے گٹ کے اندر بیکٹیریا فطرت میں پیدا ہوئے ہیں۔ لہذا ، اس کے ساتھ ساتھ ایک ہفتہ میں جتنے مختلف قسم کے کھانے پینے کی چیزیں ہم کھا سکتے ہیں ، آئیے کہتے ہیں کہ بڑا مقصد بھی فطرت میں نکلنے کے قابل ہونا چاہئے ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، درختوں کو گلے لگاتے ہیں ، ننگے پاؤں چلتے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، باغبانی کرتے ہیں ، وہ تمام چیزیں کریں جو آپ کو مختلف اقسام کے ماحول سے دوچار کرتی ہیں۔ اور ، آپ میں سے ان لوگوں کے لئے جو سفر کرنا چاہتے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، آپ اسے سفر کرنے کے بہانے کے طور پر استعمال کرسکتے ہیں اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اپنے پیروں کو مختلف ریت یا اس طرح کی چیزوں میں ڈال سکتے ہیں۔ لیکن ، میں واقعتا think یہ ضروری سمجھتا ہوں کہ جتنا مختلف کھانے پینے کا کھانا ضروری ہے ، یہ فطرت میں بھی نکلتا ہے ، اور ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، جنگل کی سیر اور ان سبھی چیزوں نے جن سے حقیقی فائدہ ہوا ہے۔ اور ، میرے خیال میں اس کا ایک حصہ محض مائکرو بایوم کی وجہ سے ہے۔

اور اب ہم بہت سارے معاملات جن کے ساتھ ہم نپٹ رہے ہیں وہ ہے… ٹھیک ہے ، جزوی طور پر یہ آبادی زیادہ ہے ، اور ہمارے پاس پارکس ، کھیتوں ، اور باقی سب چیزوں کی نمائش نہیں ہے ، لیکن اس کے ساتھ ساتھ ، لوگ صرف خواہش مند ہیں ہر وقت صاف رہنا۔ اور ، مجھے لگتا ہے کہ ، جزوی طور پر ، اب ہمارے پاس موجود کچھ امور پیدا ہوئے ہیں ، اور یہ ہی جراثیم کے نظریہ اور لوگوں کا پورا خیال ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، کسی بھی قسم کے بیکٹیریا نہ ملنے کے بارے میں فکر مند ہیں۔ لیکن ، یہ حقیقت میں جسم کی مدد نہیں کرتا ہے اور نہ ہی طویل عرصے سے قوت مدافعت کے نظام میں مدد فراہم کرتا ہے۔

کیٹی: سمجھ گیا ہاں ، میں قدرت کے باغبانی میں وقت گزارنے کا ایک بہت بڑا پرستار ہوں ، میرے بچے ماحول کے پورے مائکرو بایوم کے ساتھ بات چیت کرتے ہوئے ننگے پاؤں چڑھنے والے درختوں کے باہر ہی رہتے ہیں۔ میں جاننا چاہتا ہوں اگر ، کیونکہ یہ جسم میں اتنی بڑی تبدیلی لانے کے قابل ہے ، اور ، میرا مطلب ہے کہ ، یہ واقعی حیرت زدہ ہے ، جن چیزوں کے بارے میں آپ کہہ رہے ہو کہ وہ کرنے کے قابل ہے۔ آپ یہ کیسے یقینی بناسکتے ہیں کہ اس سے کوئی منفی تبدیلی نہیں آئے گی؟ دوسرے لفظوں میں ، کیا ایسی کوئی مثال موجود ہے جہاں ٹرانسپلانٹ ہونے والے بیکٹیریا زیادہ سے زیادہ نہیں ہوتے ہیں ، اور پھر ، اس سے مسائل پیدا ہوتے ہیں؟

ڈاکٹر جیسن: ہاں۔ نہیں ، یہ واقعتا ایک بہت بڑا سوال ہے۔ اب ، میں اپنے تجربے کی وضاحت کروں گا ، لیکن واقعتا، ، جو میرے خیال میں میرے تجربے سے زیادہ قیمتی ہے وہ ہے تحقیق کی ہماری گہرائی۔ اور ، جب آپ ڈونر کی مناسب اسکریننگ کرتے ہیں اور آپ اس بات کو یقینی بناتے ہیں کہ وہاں کوئی متعدی بیماری موجود نہیں ہے تو پھر کسی بھی قسم کے منفی ردعمل کا امکان بہت محدود ہے۔ اور ، اگر آپ تحقیق کی وسیع پیمانے پر نگاہ ڈالیں ، اور اب تک انہوں نے ہر طرح کے مختلف حالات پر یہ کام کیا ہے تو ، وہ ہمیشہ ، مطالعے کے آخر میں کہتے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، “بہت سے لوگوں میں محفوظ ، بہتر روادار ، موثر ہے۔ مقدمات اور اسی طرح ، یہ کلید ہے۔ جس کا مطلب بولوں: یہ واقعی کلید ہے۔ تاہم ، اگر آپ یہ غلط کرتے ہیں اور آپ ڈونر اسکریننگ کو صحیح طریقے سے نہیں کرتے ہیں تو ، قطعی طور پر ، یہ ایک بہت بڑا مسئلہ ہوسکتا ہے۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، میں نے معاملات عام طور پر دیکھے ہیں ، لوگ گھر پر ہی کرتے ہیں ، اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ایسا ہی ہے ، “اوہ ، میری بہن کا دوست مجھے بتاتا ہے کہ وہ بہت صحت مند ہے اور میں بالکل بھی صحتمند نہیں ہوں ، اور اسی طرح ، میں ‘m going to use his stool.” And, there’s no screening, and then, later on, they come to find out, “Oh, my God, I’ve got H. pylori, and I’ve got all these other issues.” And then, you go ahead and test this, you know, sister’s boyfriend, “Oh, he had H. pylori too, and he had these other infections.” We just didn’t know about it because he was extremely healthy, or at least appeared to be healthy, and his immune system was strong enough, and he wasn’t showing overt symptoms of that.

So for us, you know, we do a lot of blood screening looking for anything infectious, hepatitis, HIV, syphilis, all of that stuff, blood screening, all of those, plus stool screening, so looking for parasites, you know, viral infections, and Candida overgrowth, and so on, and so forth. There’s a long list of things that we test for. And that’s really important, of course, testing. But more important than that is even their medical history. So, all of our donors are breastfed, vaginally born, never used antibiotics in their life. In our case, they’re not vaccinated, although I don’t know that that’s an absolute criteria, but just so happens to be that those are the donors that we work with. And then, you know, they’re not overweight, you know, they’re athletic, they’re in sports, and the list goes on.

So, we need to make sure from a blood and stool testing standpoint that they’re very clean, as well as from a history standpoint, making sure that you know, no immediate family members have cancer when they’re 30, or brother who’s got, you know, a skin condition, or other things like that. So, it’s really…the donor screening is really, really critical in making sure that it’s safe and effective. Because, if you have a low quality donor, you may not see any change of symptoms because they are not giving you a lot of gut diversity. Same thing with, if you do take stool from a donor and they are not properly screened, and it turns out, you know, Yersinia or some type of infection, that could cause real problems in someone whose gut is compromised.

So, yes, there are risks, but they can be mitigated by proper donor screening, and so that’s absolute number one. And, this is why I’m not a huge advocate for home FMT or DIY FMT. I know some people resort to that, and I understand why people do, because it’s not easy to get it and it’s not exactly cheap either. But, I think it’s just really, really critical that you make sure that proper donor screening is done, because when it’s done, it’s extremely safe. We do see mild symptoms, you know, when we do the enemas, for example, there can be an increase in gas, a little bit of cramping, things of that nature. Kids with autism, sometimes we’ll see some increase in their existing symptoms. So, perhaps, they’re a little hyperactive, they may be a little more hyperactive for a short period of time.

And a big part of that is because we’re introducing a large amount of bacteria, and it’s kind of having a fight, if you will, with the existing gut microbiota to find some sort of equilibrium. And, in the process of finding that equilibrium, there’s a bit of a fight. Some of them die, and when they die, the body has to detox them out. And, if the body has trouble in detoxing, that’s when it can become an issue where they can experience some symptoms. Because, in effect, there’s an increase of inflammation in the body, and anything that’s already going on will be exacerbated somewhat. So, actually, a lot of what we do, or a part of what we do is, is we have most people do, supporting their liver to really make sure that their liver can properly detox whatever we’re killing off.

Katie: Got it. That makes sense. Okay, so for anyone who’s listening who maybe has SIBO or has some kind of diagnosis, or has a child struggling through autism symptoms, what is the process like to find you or someone like you, and how can they begin that process?

Dr. Jason: Sure. So, to find someone like me, there’s not a lot of people like me. I’m the only one that I know of right now in the world that’s duplicating the study for autism. In effect, we’re duplicating it in many ways, although we’ve improved it in others. So, there’s nobody else that’s doing it the way that I am. Although, there are other clinics that do FMT, so I’m not the only one to do that. But for us, I mean, most people are either referred by their physician or they hear about it through somebody who got really great results, you know, another parent. So, those are two big ways. And, they usually just send them to our website, which is fmtsolution.com, and they can learn a lot more about that.

And, for us, for autism, I would say most kids with autism are absolute candidates for FMT. I mean, I’ve just looked at so many stool tests now and heard from so many families by now where I don’t even think twice about whether or not I think someone who has autism and a lot of digestive symptoms, they should definitely consider it if they’re considering therapies and they want to go down the route of treating the gut, I think that’s definitely the case. However, in other cases, like IBS, and SIBO, and IBD, and things, I definitely think there are some people who are better candidates than others. And so, for us, we really make sure that we screen and we really get a sense of, hey, is this person likely to show benefit from FMT? And, if they are, great, we can have a discussion about what that treatment might look like. But, if not, then, you know, perhaps go do something else.

And really, what I think is important, of course, if you have C. difficile, you’re in a, you know, acute state, you’ve got a lot of problems, you need treatment. So, we don’t really treat C. difficile. But, for other conditions take IBS, for example, actually, the research is quite compelling based on the improvements that people can experience with FMT. But, it’s not the first place that I would start. You know, if somebody came to me and said, “Oh, I have IBS.” And, I’d say, “Well, what kinds of other treatments have you done today?” Well, nothing really. I took a supplement that I found on Amazon somewhere. Well, I think you need to do a lot more first, right? Like, let’s see, you clean up your diet, let’s see you get your lifestyle, improved, reducing stress, getting more physically active, and the list goes on. If all of those things fail, then yeah, I think you might consider doing FMT. But, otherwise, you know, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. For Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis, similar thing. I mean, those are conditions that are generally more severe, but it’s definitely something that, you know, I still think you need to really make sure the foundation on the groundwork stuff has already been done.

And then, SIBO, this is an interesting one because I used to treat a lot of SIBO. In my experience of treating a lot of SIBO, I’ve never come across a patient that didn’t first have some form of really bad gut dysbiosis. Meaning that, perhaps, I hear these stories all the time it’s like, “Oh, well, in my 20s, I was given antibiotics for acne for five years,” or, “I had one month where I was in IV for pneumonia infection,” or “I got ear infections all the time as a kid, and then I had antibiotics every couple of months, and then leading into that, I had constipation throughout my teenage years, and then in my 20s, you know, I got out of university went to work, it was extremely stressful and everything just fell apart then.” But oftentimes, when things fall apart, it’s just a matter of time, it’s just the straw that broke the camel’s back, but what’s really happening is, is that there were many signs before that, that showed that the gut was becoming more and more deplete of these healthy beneficial broad-spectrum bacteria. And so, that’s usually the case.

Now, you know, given that I’ve treated a lot of SIBO, I don’t personally see FMT as a treatment for SIBO. Although, there is a very, you know, small study that did show that, that it is actually something that can treat SIBO, and quite effectively, actually, I was surprised. But, what I think, if you do consider treatment with SIBO, you definitely need to make sure that you’re reducing the overgrowth to begin with, kind of, like we talked about before, right? It’s a mountain, we’re climbing it. We’ve got to try to reduce this overgrowth as much as possible to make it so that we can get to that ascent.

But, really, I would consider it if someone continues to relapse. I believe a lot of the relapse is not around, “Oh, well, you just started eating, you know, food again too quickly.” Or, you know, whatever it is, “You didn’t stick as close to the low FODMAP as you should have.” I think it’s just because there’s nothing to counteract it. It’s just like you have a garden, right, and you get rid of all of the weeds, but you never put in any corn. Well, the weeds are just going to come back, it’s not like when, it’s just how soon? And so, you need to rebuild the gut. And, for some people, they can do that through expanding the diet slowly, and then, slowly working on that. Remember, I said there’s a bit of a fingerprint. However, if that fingerprint is gone and there’s no memory of what a healthy gut looks like, it’s going to be nearly impossible, in some of those extreme chronic cases of SIBO, to totally, you know, be into long term remission, able to eat and have a normal healthy lifestyle again. So, in those cases, I might consider doing it, but it would follow a pretty intensive pre-treatment to, kind of, clean out that garden, if you will.

So that, when you have done that, you can immediately follow it up with FMT, lock in those benefits, and see that it doesn’t continue to relapse. And, I’ve definitely done that, and that works quite well. But again, you know, people, when they’re at the point of considering that, they’ve usually gone and done and tried a lot of things, because, you know, for a lot of people, it’s quite an extreme thing to travel for this and to, you know, pay the money that it takes to get it done, and be gone from work. And so, there’s a lot of variables that come into play. So, usually the people that reach that point are more severe, I would say.

But, yeah, so that’s the premise. I mean, people find out about me through a lot of different ways. We screen to make sure that, A, they would benefit from this, and B, that they’re very well informed. You know, we want people to really understand what they’re doing, why they’re doing it, and if they have any question that they’re very clear on it, so that there’s not a, “Oh, wait.” They know they show up, and, “Oh, wait. What, you’re actually using, like, fecal material?” It’s like, “Well, yeah, that’s what we do here.” So, really, making sure people are very well informed and that they can make a decision from that place. And then, if so, you know, we go into the logistics and planning of arranging their treatment, and taking care of things that way.

Katie: Got it. Are there any, like, contraindications or downsides? I know you said you guys screen really carefully, and I think it makes total sense that someone should try other things first and at least have a really solid foundation with diet and other lifestyle factors. But, are there contraindications or concerns people should know about this?

Dr. Jason: Yeah. For the most part, not really. However, close to a year ago, there was actually someone who died from FMT. And, the reason that they died is…well, there’s a couple of factors. One, they were in their 70s, which doesn’t really have any bearing, I’ve treated lots of patients that are elderly, but the other thing is, they had no immune system. So, they had, you know, a medical condition that meant that they had no immune system. I don’t just mean, like, a weak immune system, they get every cold, that kind of thing. Like, they had no immune system. The donor had a certain strain of E. Coli that was what we call an MDMR, so it was a multidrug-resistant organism, MDRO. And, that E. Coli strain was resistant to antibiotics.

So, the patient had no immune system to fight it off, the antibiotics couldn’t kill it. And so, what actually happened, tragically, is that this patient died. So, I would be cautious, now, to treat anybody that had no immune system. And, you know, someone that might be in that case would be really advanced cancer, or HIV, or other conditions like that. Most people have an immune system, but here’s a case where they didn’t. Now, on top of that, we screen for all these multidrug-resistant organisms to make sure that donors don’t have them, as well as that they don’t have any risks of having them, for example, you know, traveling to developing or, you know, Third World countries, you know, spending a lot of time in or around people that are in hospitals, or working in the healthcare field, and the list goes on. So, we make sure our donors don’t check any of those boxes as well as screen for it. But, I would say that’s, you know, quite likely a possible indication.

The other one is having a perforated bowel, right? But, we would know about that, and someone to be in a pretty acute state. So, if someone had a perforated bowel, you wouldn’t want to go putting in a whole bunch of bacteria because that would then leak into their system. As you, you know, sort of, talked about with your husband, you know, he had a perforated appendix, I mean, that’s a pretty severe thing, and, you know about it because you’re in severe pain, or you’ll find out pretty quickly if you haven’t found out immediately when it happened. So, those are some of the main ones, but otherwise, I wouldn’t say there’s any other strong contraindications. But, the main indication, I would say, is, is that there’s a history of damage to the gut microbiome, even through natural stuff. You know, I’ve had a lot of patients that have just spent years taking all different kinds of natural herbal antimicrobials. And, they’re less damaging, but they can still be damaging if you do them long enough, you know, combined with limited restrictive diets or bad diets, and the list goes on.

Katie: Got it. Okay fine. Yeah, that’s really helpful to understand.

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Katie: And, I think you’re right, like, this seems like, probably, a foreign concept to a lot of people. But, like you’ve explained so well today, there are so many applications for this, you just want to make sure that your body is well prepared, and that you are doing the right things afterwards. What kind of future applications do you see for this that you think we’re not even aware of yet?

Dr. Jason: Yeah, great question. So, I really truly believe that every chronic disease, take heart disease, take cancer, take neurological diseases, diabetes, and the list goes on, I believe they all have a connection to some type of dysfunction in the gut. And, the more that we’re doing the research, the more this is becoming clear. Take, you know, Parkinson’s for example, they’ve identified, now, certain bacteria that are missing or, you know, not present or not present in high enough numbers in people with Parkinson’s. So, what’s going on there, right? Like, something’s going on, and so, how are we going to treat that? So, yes, I believe that all chronic diseases will be treated with time with FMT or variants of it. You know, companies are working on identifying certain strains, I don’t think that’s going to work. I think having the full spectrum of the gut microbiota is really going to make a difference.

But, just to give you some context, they’re actually even studying right now, the study started up in China, using FMT for the treatment of coronavirus. You know, the study was just posted, they’re just starting to do this research. So, wow, you know, that’s crazy, this is a virus and they’re using FMT. But, it happens to have some gut symptoms and other things, and so, the immune system is very connected to it. But, I think that, and as well, they’ve done some research on using FMT in certain…while patients are using certain chemotherapeutics. And, more explicitly, they study this in mice, where mice taking certain chemo drugs, and then they give them FMT, seeing a better outcome. And so, I don’t know, you know, why exactly that is? Is it just that the FMT is so beneficial or is it that it’s helping to enhance the effectiveness of the chemotherapeutics, and it’s likely a combination of the two.

So, I think there’s going to be a lot more indications as we begin to understand, you know, the pathophysiology, if you will, of the development of that condition, and we’ll be able to see, “Oh, you know, this is what’s happening.” So, they’re even, you know, using it for hepatic encephalopathy, right, which is a condition of the liver, and they’re seeing great results with that. So, I truly believe that all chronic disease, with time, we’ll learn how to treat it effectively with FMT. And, it’s not to say that, you know, everybody with a chronic disease that would get FMT would necessarily see dramatic improvements, but, you know, taking cancer for an example, you know, a drug will get approved when only 10% of people show improvement of it, you know, not even a cure or anything else. So, I think there’s going to be very wide application.

And, as we move into this world where we’re using so many antibiotics, and our environment is so polluted, and, you know, our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our food system is polluted, I mean, all of those things just wreck havoc on the gut, and that is hugely concerning. And, as we, you know, have more of these external forces through the environment, plus our lifestyles, plus all the antibiotics, we’re going to be ending up with, well, more chronic disease, but also superbugs, and things that we cannot control, or our immune systems and our gut microbiome will not be able to control, and that we can’t, you know, quickly come up with, you know, a vaccine or something like that to handle. So, I think there’s going to be application in other cases where once we start to get these, you know, conditions where there’s superbugs and things that we can’t treat with their standard therapies, this will be something that will be used to try to treat those types of conditions. So, that problem is only getting worse and worse. If you see what’s happening in hospitals and beyond, I mean, they’re fighting crazy stuff, and the most intense treatments are not killing it off. And so, you know, what do we do?

Katie: Yeah, that’s a great point. And, with what you’ve explained of how people see such drastic changes, and that these changes actually last, which is in stark contrast to so many of the other treatments available, I think you’re right. I think it’s going to be a really fascinating next couple of years as we start to see this practically applied more, and just continued research on it. For people who want to, like, learn more from you, or maybe even learn more about starting this process, where can people find you?

Dr. Jason: Yeah. So, I keep a fairly low profile, partly A, because it’s my nature, and partly B, because there’s a lot of people that don’t think FMT is all that great, and they want to stop anybody doing it, which is, to me, kind of crazy, but nonetheless. But, the best way to learn more about me is on my website, it’s just www.fmt, (Fecal Microbiota Transplant), www.fmtsolution.com. And so, that’s the main and easiest way to get a hold of me. There’s a lot of information there, we’ve got a long list of FAQs, for people to really understand what they’re doing. And then, also on that site, if you are serious about this and you don’t just want to, you know, talk about the weather or talk about, you know, what you’ve done in your life and everything else, but you really are serious about FMT after reading through the website, then definitely there’s an opportunity where you can book a call and speak with a naturopathic doctor on my team to better understand the process and determine if you are a fit.

The website is really geared towards families with kids with autism, and so that’s most of the information. But, nonetheless, if you have a different condition, we do accept other patients who have different conditions and you can still feel free to reach out. We will alter the treatment program, somewhat, depending on the condition. So, not everybody does 16 weeks of treatment, you know, many times people can just do 10 enemas, and that’s it. Or, perhaps they need to do longer, you know, it really, kind of, depends. But, yes, that’s the best way to find me. If none of those ways seems to be getting a hold of me, you can also just hit me up personally on my email which is [email protected], and I’m happy to answer questions, and/or forward you to speak with the other Doc in my team if I think the call is warranted.

Katie: Awesome. And, I will make sure that those are linked in the show notes, as well as, I think I’ve seen some of the studies that you’ve mentioned, I’ll link to those as well so people can read. Because, I think, like as I said, it’s a really fascinating area, and one that we’re just starting to explore, certainly, I’m just starting to explore. And, I’m grateful for you and your time today, and explaining both the process and the science of how this works. And, I think you’re right, as we see more chronic problems and more acute dangerous problems, I think we’re going to need solutions like this to be able to battle them. I’m grateful that you’re there on the front line doing this right now.

Dr. Jason: Cool. Well, thank you so much. And, I think just to add to that quickly. I think to help us improve even further, the outcomes, will be to better identify how we can match a donor and a patient. Right now, we really follow what I call, like, the shotgun approach. Sure, we make sure we have a really high-quality donor, but we’re not totally clear on what of that high-quality donor is making such a dramatic difference in a specific patient. And, I also have some cases where, you know, we’ll have two people that come get treatment for ulcerative colitis, one of them just has phenomenal outcomes goes into remission stays into remission for years, and then the other person will see little or no change. And so, why is that? And so, I think that with time, and this is a project that I’m tackling currently, is trying to better identify how we can match a donor and a patient. And, as we begin to learn or create that type of model, that will help us to become even more specific for the types of conditions that we can treat and how specifically to treat them. So, if we’ve got a, you know, sort of, a Rolodex, if you will, of healthy donors, and we understand their gut microbiome, how can we take a look at these patients and say, “Well, here’s somebody to match you up with?” And, that’s really the fine-tuning of this sort of process, is to try to figure that out.

Now, I might not ever figure it out, because I think this is much more complex than we might imagine. For example, you know, some people think it may not actually be about the bacteria, it could be about the phages, or it could be about something else that’s not just about the bacteria. So, I think it is really a complex problem that I’m here working on trying to solve. But, I do think that that will allow us to increase the benefits that we see, the improvements that we see, as well as helping to identify what types of illnesses or conditions could benefit from this, and/or how to maximize the improvements for people.

So, yes. But, otherwise, yeah, thank you so much, Katie, for having me here. And, I really appreciate you asking some great questions.

Katie: Thank you for your time, and thanks to all of you for listening and for your time sharing one of your most valuable assets with us. We’re so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.



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