The Catastrophic Consequences of Sitting With Dr. Turner Osler

Baby: Welcome to my mom’s podcast.

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the Healthy Mama Podcast. I’m from Katie, and this episode has some really interesting, easy-to-implement, practical tips that can focus and focus on posture, core strength, even sensory issues, and babies, and in the waist in adults. it pains. And best of all, today’s guest has created solutions to the problems that he is sharing as an open source project so you can make it almost no cost at home.

I am here with Dr. Turner Osler, CEO and founder of QOR360. She is a retired academic trauma surgeon research epidemiologist, who has published more than 300 peer-reviewed medical papers and book chapters. He certainly knows the subject. As a therapist who for the most part of his life was persecuted by traditional chairs at convention, his quest for healthy sitting led him to create a redrocker, a new geometric concrete type device, the Cinque Baselkander. , And also the active seating product we’re talking about today, which includes things that can be used for kids and adults, called button-on chairs.

So, without further ado, I know you’ll really enjoy the event. And I hope that as parents and those of us who are teachers, we can start implementing some of these practical solutions in our daily lives. So let’s join Dr. Turner Osler.

Dr. Asler, welcome. Thanks for being here.

Dr. Osler: Well, I’m glad Katie is here.

Katie: Well, I’m really excited to delve deeper into a topic that I think is really, really important today, and I know that you think it’s important too. And to jump into it, I think start wide and then get tight in some way. So we’ve heard that, you know, sitting is a new smoking and there’s all this stuff about why we shouldn’t sit too much and of course as Americans, we are more likely to sit. Are. But based on your really vast knowledge on this subject, explain to us what is the science of sitting down when it comes to speaking and how bad do we think it is?

Dr. Osler: Well, you know, it’s not as bad as we think, it’s probably worse. What is seized nowadays is smoking, which is more true than you think. Which is to say: this is a nice precision. In most parts of the twentieth century, people think smoking is normal because everyone smokes and how can this be a problem? Now, even therapists have somehow made humans think of smoking. And it wasn’t until, you know, that magic broke through research and statistical analysis that showed that smoking was terrible for people, not only because of lung cancer but also Causes emphysema and heart disease, and you know, second after diabetes.

Therefore, smoking was now destructive to humans, which was hidden in the eyes of the simple. People couldn’t see it because they thought it was normal. Fortunately, we have gone through the entire cessation of smoking, but now we know that sitting down is really bad for people. But that’s the story again. You know, people think seating is all because chairs are everywhere, and people spend most of their day sitting. So how can this be a problem because it seems normal?

Katie: Yes, that’s right, and I guess, I don’t remember the exact figure on the upper part of my head, but for Americans in particular, sitting is very normal and it’s a fact of nature. How absurd we are as a population.

Dr. Osler: All right. And that’s a big deal. Normally an American spends only eight hours a day, you know, how is that possible? Well, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, car on the way to work, you know, sitting on the PC at work, sitting at home on a PC … and it’s bedtime. People spend most of their waking hours sitting. But seating is a deeply unnatural thing for our species that has been a hunter-gatherer for the past thirty million years. You know, we were chasing the rabbit and running away from the grass. When we suddenly sat down 100 years ago, you know, it was a grand science fair project. It’s really gone very badly for us.

You know, we have these rising rates of obesity and hypertension and diabetes and heart disease. Sitting on the sidewalk can have devastating consequences for the health and well-being of business people. But since it’s like us, we’re only able to see the horrors of the situation through a clear lens of medical research and epidemic diseases.

Katie: Yes, of course and I think it’s an important point to point out. As you mentioned for eight hours a day, which is a lot of time to sit. And what’s interesting about that, I think it’s also something that Americans at least think about, well, okay, then we just have to cope with it, Play more movement than A little while, like exercise. And, of course, I will not underestimate the importance of regular exercise. This is very, very important. But I think there’s a misconception that we can eliminate the harm we get from going to the gym every day.

Dr. Osler: All right. And this also comes as a surprise to epidemiologists because, you know, it seems logical that, if you stay seated, it is better to be bad and if you have to move in a hurry. But it turns out that doing cardio in the gym is good and, you know, an hour of cramping and sweating for your vascular system. But the real disadvantage of sitting down is that the only thing we do is sit back and exercise by going to the gym and exercising vigorously does not end the tool. You know, this is not an antidote, but it is very clear in epidemiological research that he is still sitting, which is the problem.

Katie: Yes, of course I don’t remember the exact number of stats, but I know that when they did the research it was really surprising because all these people who work regularly and they have all these standards of exercise On how often they should work and it was more than four days a week and that was the recommended amount of time and they meet all these guidelines and yet, in comparison to the controls, it really Not much better because it shows you only need more than an hour. Of active movement per day. Basically, this is something we need to incorporate into our lives. And the other reaction that happens is, you know, sitting down became a new smoker, that was, OK, so let’s just all be standing desks and we stand all day and instead we just do it. Will And I know you can talk to me better than that, but it turns out that standing up is not the answer, is it?

Dr. Osler: Yes, no. So standing desks, you know, he didn’t do any research behind them, of course there was no research behind them, because it seems like the obvious answer is, you know, if sitting down is bad, standing up. Must be because standing is the opposite of sitting, right? Well, it turns out this is not right. You know, standing can be anti-semitic, but it’s not anti-seizure physiologically. Is still in the physiologic movement of the sitting. And when you see people at the standing desks, you know, usually they’re not doing tai chi. You know, they have a lock on the hip and they are leaning on the desk and they are there as if they were sitting in a chair. The argument is, for some reason, worse to put on a standing desk. One is that when you are standing, your blood is the column that goes down from your ankle to your ankle that separates all the veins in your legs. And it gives people different types of veins, which was a huge problem for people in the last century who stood on assembly lines all day.

I know that I have personal experience with it because as a general surgeon, I was like, you know, pulling off white blood vessels from people who ruined the nervous system in their legs. ۔ And, you know, it was beyond rebuilding and it just had to end through major and ugly operations. And I think we get to see surgery for varicose veins and varicose veins if we really grasp the standing tables. So it is a problem in standing desks that people have difficulty in veins. You know, you can walk and your muscles are contracting your legs and blood is draining from the veins and things are fine. But if you stand silent, the blood pools in your veins in your legs and those moments, you know, can spread for years and decades to the point where they can recover and now you have to have the operation. Need

But more than that, something that Smith published in the “American Journal of Epidemiology” in 2018. And, they followed 7,300 people for 10 years, half of them at desks, half at desks. And they are the ones who suffer from double the rate of heart disease at the standing desks. It was a shock because, you know, it was expected that standing up would be good for people, but it turns out it’s worse than their hearts. And heart disease, you just need a little heart attack and it can change your whole life. So you know, the problem with diving into the standing desks was that nobody really examined carefully what the damage could be. And really, preliminary research suggests that standing desks are going to be a lot… or they’ll be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Katie: Yes, I do. This is really interesting because like I said, I think this is just our default. I don’t know if it’s like Americans or just human beings, it’s like, okay, this one thing is bad, let’s focus on this and the other thing. And now we’ve done this many times. And we haven’t got it yet. So let’s talk about what the ideal scenario is. And I know I want to go in many directions with that, you know, for our kids, for us in the work environment, for our home environment, I think we can change a lot and make it Can make it better. But explain, as humans and movements in general, what is an ideal scenario?

Dr. Osler: Well, the ideal scenario is to just go back to being a hunter where, you know, you just do most of the day walking. You know, as a species, we are different than we need to exercise. You know, our minority race, you know, bonobos and chimps and organs and guerrillas just sit and eat nuts all day, and then loot the tree and make a nest at night. These species do not need exercise. But when humans have taken a desperate step, you know how to collect poachers from the bushes. , We adapted to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which would include hiking 5 or 10 or 15 miles a day. That’s what our systems need and even rely on. You know, two thousand years ago, Happy Carpenters famously saw that walking is the best medicine for humans. We are truly a dynamic species and designed to stay moving all the time. Shockingly, when we sit down, none of this happens. Our muscles go black and we do zero workouts.

So what we really want is some way of sitting that allows us to be in constant motion or to be able to walk to some extent. And the people have… you know, I’m ready with the idea of ​​treadmill tables so you can enjoy all day long trails in a mile or two. But this has not been very practical because you hate cubicle companion noise and they are expensive and when you walk more than half an hour an hour, it is very difficult to handle the mouse. But what we want is for you to keep moving while you are sitting. And it turns out, you know, that you can design a chair that lets people move while sitting, using them themselves … just kind of burns off their nervous energy, to improve. Ltd. generates enough activity to change and improve their biochemistry. Make this currency their core strength and the many benefits that you have while sitting.

Katie: That makes sense. And I feel like a kid, we can learn from kids because they do it naturally. For example, if you try to get a child to sit in a chair, they do not like it and are anxious. And then over time, we like to learn to settle down and, you know, waist our backs and get into a terrible posture and get used to it because we have to do a lot of it. Is. But I feel like we can really learn a lot from kids in doing it correctly. But let’s talk about that a little more.

Dr. Osler: We put that kind of emphasis on children, right? Because when they show up in the first grade, they dance in a chair and have to stay, which, you know, is advisable to sit quietly. You know, kids know what they need and what they need to move. And when we, you know, force them to sit quiet, you know, we do them a terrible thing. And it turns out that the older children move, the less they come.

There has been a fantastic study that came out just this weekend, or just this month, in “The Lancet Psychiatry,” where they see children and how much they move, and they rarely move. Go, you know, from 14 to 16 to 18 years old. They put an accelerometer on these children to see how much movement they were having. And as they aged, they moved less and less. Interestingly, their depression rates have gone up. لہذا یہ پتہ چلتا ہے کہ بچوں کو حرکت دینے دینے کے اس کاروبار میں نہ صرف ان کی کرنسی ، ان کی طاقت اور ان کی مجموعی صحت کے لئے بلکہ ان کی نفسیاتی فلاح و بہبود کے لئے بھی گہرے مضمرات ہیں۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، ہم صرف اتنا دریافت کر رہے ہیں کہ لوگوں اور خاص طور پر بچوں کے لئے گستاخانہ طرز کی حالت کتنی خراب ہے۔

کیٹی: ہاں ، بالکل اور مجھے لگتا ہے کہ ہم تھوڑا سا مختلف ہیں کیونکہ ہم گھریلو اسکول ہیں ، لیکن میں نے یہ اپنے بچوں میں بھی دیکھا ہے اور میں کوشش کرتا ہوں کہ میں ہر ممکن کوشش کروں کہ ان کو منتقل کرنے کے خواہاں ہوں اور حقیقت میں انہیں کم سے کم بیٹھ جا sit۔ ہم ہوم اسکولنگ میں ان چیزوں میں سے ایک چیز کو بہتر بناتے ہیں ، لیکن میں جانتا ہوں کہ یہ ضروری نہیں کہ ہر اسکول کے منظرنامے میں یہ ایک آپشن ہو ، اسی وجہ سے میں آپ کے کاموں سے محبت کرتا ہوں۔ میں اس کے بارے میں بھی تھوڑا سا مزید بات کرنا چاہتا ہوں کیونکہ آپ نے بنیادی طور پر اس کو کھلی کھوج لگانے کے بعد اور یہ سب بچوں کے لئے دستیاب کردیا ہے۔ لیکن بدقسمتی سے ، اسکول کے بہت سارے حالات میں ، ابھی بھی ، بچوں کو ایک ہی ڈیسک میں یا ایک ہی جگہ پر ہونا ضروری ہے تاکہ وہ اپنا کام انجام دے سکیں۔ اور اس ل feel میں محسوس کرتا ہوں کہ آپ نے واقعی ایک جدید حل پیدا کیا ہے جس کی وجہ سے وہ اب بھی حرکت کرسکتے ہیں اور بیٹھنے یا کھڑے ہونے کی یہ ساری منزلیں حاصل نہیں کرسکتے ہیں۔ تو کیا آپ اس کے بارے میں مزید بات کرسکتے ہیں کہ یہ کیا ہے اور یہ کیسے کام کرتا ہے؟

ڈاکٹر آسلر: ہاں ، نہیں۔ لہذا ہمارے پاس یہ خیال تھا کہ ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، بچوں کو پتہ ہے کہ انہیں کیا ضرورت ہے اور انہیں منتقل کرنے کی کیا ضرورت ہے ، لیکن ہم نے ان پر مجبور کیا فرنیچر اس کی اجازت نہیں دیتا ہے۔ اس سے انھیں حوصلہ افزائی ہوتی ہے کہ وہ گر پڑیں اور صرف بے حرکت ہوجائیں۔ لہذا ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ہم نے ایک دو کرسیاں تیار کی ہیں جو لوگوں کو بیٹھنے کے دوران حرکت میں آتی ہیں۔ لیکن ریاستہائے متحدہ میں 25 ملین اسکول کے بچوں میں کرسیاں لگانے کے خیال سے ایسا لگتا تھا کہ اسکولوں کے لئے یہ ایک بہت ہی مہنگا تجویز ہوگا جو ہمیشہ نقد رقم کے لئے پٹے ہوئے ہوتے ہیں۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، وہ اپنے پری اسکولرز کے آرٹ پروجیکٹس پر چمکنے کے متحمل نہیں ہوسکتے ہیں۔

تو ہمارا خیال تھا کہ ہم ایک کرسی تیار کریں گے جسے ہم دے سکتے ہیں۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، ہم CNC روٹر فائل ، روٹر کی طرح ڈیزائن دیتے ہیں۔ یہ ایک ایسی مشین ہے جو پلائیووڈ کا ایک ٹکڑا لیتی ہے اور بالکل اسی طرح جیسے ڈاک ٹکٹوں کی طرح ٹکڑوں کو کوکی کٹر کی طرح لیتی ہے۔ صرف ٹکڑے ٹکڑے اتنے بڑے ہیں کہ وہ ایک ساتھ فٹ ہوجاتے ہیں اور کرسی میں بدل جاتے ہیں۔ اور یہ کرسی جوڑ کی طرح مل گئی ہے جو نمونہ میں تیار کی گئی ہے ، لہذا وہ پیچ یا گلوز یا کسی بھی چیز کے بغیر ایک ساتھ ہی کلک کرتے ہیں۔ اور تشہیر کے ساتھ ، انہوں نے نشست اور کرسی کے ڈھانچے کے درمیان والی چیز کے طور پر ٹینس بال کا استعمال شروع کیا ، لیکن ہمیں ایسے بچے ملے جو اتنے متحرک تھے کہ وہ ٹینس بالز میں سوراخ پہنیں گے۔ لہذا ہم نے لاکروس گیندوں کا استعمال کرتے ہوئے اب تبدیل کردیا۔ آئیے دیکھتے ہیں کہ ان کا کام ختم ہوجاتا ہے۔ کیونکہ یہ بچے بہت متحرک ہیں ، جب آپ انہیں موقع دیتے ہیں تو ، وہ صرف چیزیں باہر ہی پہنتے ہیں۔ آپ صرف جانتے ہو ، بچ underے کے نیچے کرسی ڈالنے سے وہ حرکت پذیر ہوسکتے ہیں ، لیکن وہ جانتے ہیں کہ وہ آسانی سے حرکت کرتے ہیں ، لیکن پھر بھی وہ اپنے ڈیسک پر ہی رہ سکتے ہیں اور قیام کرسکتے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہو کہ تعلیمی طور پر مصروف ہیں۔

اور اسپن اوف یہ ہے کہ کہانیاں ، اساتذہ ہمیں یہ اطلاع دیتے ہیں کہ بچے زیادہ توجہ مرکوز ہیں کیونکہ وہ اس طرح سے وگل کو نکال سکتے ہیں جب وہ صرف وہاں بیٹھے سنتے یا پڑھ رہے ہیں یا لکھ رہے ہیں یا جو بھی کام ہے۔ اور اس سے اس کا معنی آتا ہے کیونکہ ہم جانتے ہیں کہ اگر آپ لوگوں کو لیکچر سنتے ہوئے ڈوڈل لگاتے ہیں تو ، انھوں نے لیکچر میں جو کچھ سنا اس کو بہتر انداز میں یاد ہوگا۔ جسم کو متحرک رہنے دینے سے ، دماغ ایک طرح سے زیادہ مشغول رہ سکتا ہے۔ ڈسکارٹس کو یہ غلط ہو گیا جب اس نے کہا کہ دماغ صرف بونی باکس کے اندر بیٹھا کمپیوٹر تھا۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، دماغ واقعتا body جسم کا ایک حصہ ہوتا ہے۔ اور اگر جسم عام طور پر اور قدرتی طور پر چل رہا ہے اور حرکت پذیر ہے تو ، دماغ قدرتی طور پر زیادہ مشغول ہوسکتا ہے۔

کیٹی: جی ہاں ، بالکل اور میرے خیال میں یہ بھی واضح طور پر بالغوں کے لئے بھی درست ہے۔ لہذا میں جانتا ہوں کہ آپ کے پاس بچوں کے لئے پاخانہ ہے ، لیکن کیا یہ ممکن ہے کہ بڑوں کے لئے بھی استعمال کریں؟

ڈاکٹر آسلر: ٹھیک ہے۔ نہیں ، لہذا ہم نے دو چیزوں میں اس چیز کے ل the فائلیں تخلیق کیں کیوں کہ ہمارے خیال میں یہ خیال تھا کہ بڑے لوگ بالآخر ویسے بھی ان کو آزمانا چاہتے ہیں۔ تو ہم صرف… آپ جانتے ہو ، ورژن میں سے ایک 24 انچ لمبا ہے۔ تو زیادہ تر بالغ افراد کے لئے کوشش کرنا یہ کافی ہے۔ اور پھر ہم نے پایا کہ بالغوں کو واقعتا یہ پسند ہے۔ تو حقیقت میں ، میں ابھی ایک پر بیٹھا ہوں ، آپ جانتے ہو۔ ہم دوسری کرسیاں بناتے ہیں ، جو آپ جانتے ہو ، دفتر کی کرسیاں کی طرح نظر آتے ہیں اور ان میں معمول کی ایڈجسٹمنٹ اور ایڈجسٹری ہوتی ہے اور یہ اور وہ دوسری چیز۔ لیکن پلائیووڈ کے یہ ورژن ، آپ جانتے ہو کہ ، لیکروسیس گیند کی طرح کچھ آسان استعمال کرتے ہیں ، واقعتا really تمام اڈوں کو چھوتے ہیں۔ اور مجھے یہ بہت پسند ہے۔ اور آپ جانتے ہو ، میرے بہت سارے دوست ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، یہ چیزیں ہیں اور ہمیں واقعی یہ نظریہ پسند ہے کیونکہ ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، کوئی بھی اپنے لئے ایک بنا سکتا ہے کیونکہ ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ہم ان کو نمونہ دیتے ہیں۔

کیٹی: ہاں۔ مجھے وہ پسند ایا. میں محبت کرتا ہوں کہ آپ لوگ نہیں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اسے ایک مصنوع میں تبدیل کرنے اور اس کے لئے سیکڑوں اور سیکڑوں ڈالر وصول کرنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں۔ آپ صرف کوشش کر رہے ہیں کہ لوگوں کو اپنی حالت بہتر بنائے اور زیادہ فعال طور پر بیٹھ جائے۔ لہذا بچوں کے لئے ، ظاہر ہے ، میں دیکھ سکتا تھا… مجھے یقین ہے کہ یہاں فوری طور پر قابل توجہ تبدیلیاں آئیں گی جیسے آپ نے توجہ دینے کی صلاحیت اور صرف ان کی مجموعی راحت اور خوشی کا ذکر کیا ہے۔ جب آپ بالغ افراد کے ساتھ اس فعال نشست کو نافذ کرنا شروع کردیتے ہیں تو آپ کس قسم کی تبدیلیاں دیکھتے ہیں؟

ڈاکٹر آسلر: ٹھیک ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، یہ واقعی حیران کن نوعیت کا رہا ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، مجھے خیال تھا کہ یہ لوگوں کی جیو کیمسٹری کے ل good اچھا ہوگا ، اور لوگوں کو اس میں خرید لینا مشکل ہوجائے گا کیوں کہ ، آپ جانتے ہو ، یہ اجنبی کرسی جس کی ہم تجویز پیش کر رہے ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، آپ کو اس سے باز رکھیں گے۔ اب سے 20 یا 30 سال بعد دل کا دورہ پڑ رہا ہے۔ بس ، یہ طاقتور فروخت نہیں ہے۔ لیکن ہم نے دیکھا ہے کہ جب آپ لوگوں کو ایک فعال کرسی پر بٹھا دیتے ہیں تو ، کچھ ہی منٹوں میں ان کی کرن واقعی بہتر ہوجاتی ہے۔ تقریبا 90 90 یا 120 سیکنڈ کے اندر ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ان کا تناور اوپر آتا ہے ، یہ واپس آتا ہے ، ریڑھ کی ہڈی کی لاڈوائسس اور ان کی ریڑھ کی ہڈی خود کو آرام سے اور کندھوں کو آرام دیتی ہے۔ اور واقعتا، ، لوگ بہت جلد اچھureی حالت میں آ جاتے ہیں اگر آپ انہیں صرف اس چیز پر بیٹھنے دیتے ہیں جس کی ضرورت ہوتی ہے کہ وہ مستقل طور پر اپنی کرنسی کو متوازن کردیں۔

اور اس طرح پہلی بات یہ تھی کہ جب ہم اس پر کوشش کر رہے تھے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، بے گناہ لوگ جو صرف سڑک پر چل رہے تھے ، ہمارے پاس اپنی کچھ کرسیاں برلنگٹن میں چرچ اسٹریٹ پر باہر ہیں اور صرف لوگوں کو دعوت دیتے ہیں کہ وہ ان کو آزمائیں۔ باہر ٹھیک ہے ، جو چیز ہم نے دیکھا وہ فورا. ہی ان کی کرن بہتر ہوگئی۔ اور لوگ اسے پسند کرتے ہیں کیونکہ یہ ایک طرح کی تفریحی تھا۔ اور اس طرح ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ہم نے شروعات کی ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ان چیزوں کو دوسری جگہوں پر آزما رہے ہیں اور ہم نے ان کا ایک گروپ برٹن اسنوبورڈ پر چھوڑ دیا ، جو ایک مقامی کاروبار ہے جو دنیا کے تمام اسنوبورڈز بنا دیتا ہے ، میرے خیال میں۔ اور اس لئے انہوں نے ان میں سے ایک درجن لیا اور پھر انہوں نے ہمیں بلایا اور کہا کہ وہ مزید ایک درجن چاہتے ہیں۔ اور جب ہم ایک درجن اور اتارنے نکلے تو ، ڈیسک پر موجود کسی نے کہا ، “آپ کو معلوم ہے ، آپ سیٹھ سے ملیں۔ وہ ایک حقیقی پرستار ہے۔ تو آخر کار ، ہم سیٹھ سے ملے اور سیٹھ برٹن اسنوبورڈز میں آئی ٹی کے سربراہ تھے اور سیٹھ کو ہماری ایک کرسی مل گئی اور کچھ ہی دن میں اس کی کمر میں درد کا مسئلہ حل ہو گیا اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، وہ صرف وسیع تر حوصلہ افزا تھا اور کہا ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ہم ‘ d نے اسے اپنا کیریئر واپس کردیا۔ ٹھیک ہے ، ہم ابھی نہیں تھے… ہم نے توقع کی تھی کہ ہماری کرسیاں لوگوں کو اس کی کرنسی میں مدد کریں گی۔ مجھے واقعی اندازہ ہی نہیں تھا کہ باغ کی کمر کے درد والے افراد کے لئے یہ کتنی بڑی مدد ہوگی۔ میڈیکل انڈسٹری میں باغ کے مختلف قسم کے کمر درد کو اتنا احترام نہیں ملتا ہے کیونکہ اس سے کوئی نہیں مرتا ہے۔ لیکن یہ ایک بہت بڑا مسئلہ ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، اس سے 80٪ امریکی متاثر ہوتے ہیں اور ایک سال میں 100 بلین ڈالر خرچ ہوتے ہیں۔ کینسر اور دل کی بیماری کی قیمت کے ساتھ ہی۔ تو کمر کا درد ایک بہت بڑا مسئلہ ہے اور اس سے پتہ چلتا ہے کہ فعال بیٹھنے سے ، آپ جانتے ہو کہ یہ ایک بڑی مدد ثابت ہوسکتی ہے۔

کیٹی: ہاں ، بالکل اور میں سمجھتا ہوں کہ شاید بالغوں… حالانکہ بچے فطری طور پر صرف اس میں بڑے اچھے اساتذہ ہیں اور وہ بہرحال منتقل ہونا چاہتے ہیں ، مجھے ایسا لگتا ہے کہ بڑوں کو حقیقت میں اس سے بڑا فائدہ نظر آتا ہے کیوں کہ میں اپنی زندگی میں بھی بہت سے لوگوں کو جانتا ہوں ، جن کے پاس بس اس طرح کا ہوتا ہے کمر کی کمر میں ہلکا درد اور یہ کوئی خوفناک یا کمزور نہیں ہے ، لیکن یہ واقعتا ان کے لئے مایوسی کا باعث ہے۔ اور اس لئے ایسا آسان حل نکالا جائے جو آسان ہو جو امید ہے کہ ان کے دل کے دورے کے خطرے کو سڑک پر کم کردے گا یا ان دیگر تبدیلیوں کا باعث بنے گا ، مجھے لگتا ہے کہ اس قابل ہونا واقعی حیرت انگیز ہے۔

ڈاکٹر آسلر: ابھی ، ہمارے لئے یہ جاننا مشکل ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، کہانی کہاں سے شروع کرنا ہے کیوں کہ میرے خیال میں سرگرمی سے بیٹھنا حقیقت میں یہ سارے فوائد فراہم کرتا ہے اور ، آپ جانتے ہو ، ان چیزوں میں سے ہر ایک کی نوعیت کتنی اہم ہے۔ آپ اس بات پر منحصر ہیں کہ آپ کون ہیں اور آپ کا مسئلہ کیا ہے۔ لیکن جو لوگ واقعی کمر میں تکلیف میں مبتلا ہیں ، آپ جانتے ہو ، وہ ہمیں ای میلز لکھتے ہیں جو صفحات کے لمبے ہوتے ہیں جس طرح اس نے ان کے لئے سب کچھ تبدیل کردیا ہے۔ یہ واقعی بہت خوش کن ہے اور اس چیز کی ایجاد میں ہم نے جتنا وقت خرچ کیا وہ قابل قدر لگتا ہے۔

کیٹی: بالکل۔ لہذا میں دنیا کے مختلف قسم کے اختلافات کے بارے میں بھی بات کرنا پسند کروں گا کیونکہ میں نے ایک دو سوالوں کا ذکر کیا ہے جس کے بارے میں مجھے لگتا ہے کہ امریکہ میں ان چیزوں میں سے کچھ زیادہ سے زیادہ خراب ہے کہ ہمارا کلچر یقینی طور پر ختم ہوا۔ بہت زیادہ بیٹھے ہوئے۔ اور میں جاپان نہیں گیا ہوں ، لیکن میں نے اسے اس طرح سے پڑھا ہے کہ جاپان جیسے مقامات کی طرح ، وہ اس بارے میں بہتر ہیں یا ان کی ثقافت قدرتی طور پر بہتر طور پر بیٹھنے کی بہتر شکل میں ہے۔ کیا واقعتا یہ معاملہ ہے اور ہم ان سے کیا سیکھ سکتے ہیں؟

ڈاکٹر آسلر: نہیں ، یہ بہت دلچسپ ہے۔ میں واشنگٹن ڈی سی میں فیلڈن کرائس کانفرنس میں ایک سلسلہ وار لیکچر دے رہا تھا اور وہاں ویتنام کی ایک عورت تھی ، جو آپ کو معلوم ہے ، ایک کہانی سنائی ہے ، آپ کو معلوم ہے ، جب اس کا کنبہ تارکین وطن کے طور پر ریاستہائے متحدہ امریکہ آیا تھا ، آپ جانتے ہو ، وہ ملواکی میں ایک چرچ کے ذریعہ لے جایا گیا اور اپارٹمنٹ مہیا کیا گیا۔ لہذا اور یہ لوگ ویتنام سے بالکل باہر جہاں وہ ماہی گیر تھے اچانک میلواکی میں ہیں۔ اور اس طرح ان کے کفیل ان کے ساتھ آئے ہوئے تھے اور انہیں رات کے کھانے پر لے جا رہے تھے۔ اور یہاں وہ اپنے اپارٹمنٹ میں تھے اور یہ سب عجیب و غریب فرنیچر تھا جو انہوں نے پہلے کبھی نہیں دیکھا تھا کیونکہ وہ ویتنامی تھے اور انہوں نے مغربی فرنیچر کو کبھی نہیں دیکھا تھا۔

چنانچہ جب ان کے کفیل ان کو کھانے پر لینے کے ل pick ان کو لینے آئے تو انہوں نے انہیں کرسیاں کے سب سے اوپر بیٹھے اور پاخانے کے اوپر بیٹھتے ہوئے دیکھا کیونکہ کرسی پر بیٹھنے کا خیال انھیں کبھی نہیں ہوا کیوں کہ یہ کلچر اس کرنسی کے آس پاس ہی بنا ہوا تھا۔ فرش پر بیٹھنے یا بیٹھے سییزا کا یا بیٹھے ہوئے پیروں سے بیٹھنا۔ لیکن کرسی پر بیٹھنا صرف کچھ تھا جو ان کی ثقافت کا حصہ نہیں تھا۔ اور اتفاقی طور پر ، کمر میں درد بنیادی طور پر ویتنام میں نامعلوم ہے۔ لہذا ، جس قدر مغربی کرسی کسی ثقافت کو پھیلاتا ہے ، کمر میں درد اور بیٹھنے کی بیماری کے ساتھ ثقافت کے مسائل اتنے ہی بدتر ہوجاتے ہیں۔ لہذا یہ مغربی دفتر کی کرسی ڈیفالٹ کرسی بن رہی ہے اور اس کے ساتھ ہی ، یہ صحت عامہ کی تباہی لاتی ہے۔

کیٹی: واہ ، اتنی سمجھ میں آتی ہے۔ تو آئیے ایک بطور سرجن اور ایک ریسرچ ایپیڈیمولوجسٹ دونوں کے بائیو مکینکس کے بارے میں بات کرتے ہیں۔ ، مثال کے طور پر ، کراس ٹانگ بیٹھنا یا اسکویٹنگ کس طرح مختلف ہے؟ کیا اس کو باقی رہنے کی ایک فعال شکل سمجھا جاتا ہے؟ جیسے ، اس سے ہماری کرنسی کیسے بدل جاتی ہے اور کیا وہ تمام دوسری چیزیں ہیں جن کے بارے میں ہم نے صرف بیٹھنے کے مقابلے میں بات کی ہے؟

ڈاکٹر آسلر: ٹھیک ہے۔ لہذا جب آپ صلیب پر بیٹھے ہوئے ہوتے ہیں تو ، آپ اپنی ریڑھ کی ہڈی کی کرن کے لئے ذمہ دار ہوتے ہیں اور آپ کو اپنے اندرونی اور بیرونی واجبات اور اپنے ملٹی فائیڈس کو اپنی ریڑھ کی ہڈی کی ہر قسم کی ضرورت ہوتی ہے تاکہ آپ سیدھے سیدھے بیٹھیں۔ جب آپ کسی کو دفتر کی کرسی پر بٹھا دیتے ہیں اور وہ کرسی کے پچھلے حصے سے پیچھے کی طرف کھسکتے ہیں تو ، ان کے سارے عضو تاریک ہوجاتے ہیں اور ان کی کرن واقعی بدترین ممکنہ صورت میں بدل جاتی ہے۔ ایک بہت مشہور تائی چی اساتذہ نے ایک بار کہا تھا “آپ کی کرسی کا پچھلا حصہ آپ کے کوٹ کو لٹکانے کے لئے ہے۔ اگر آپ کو ایسا لگتا ہے کہ آپ کو اپنی کرسی کے پچھلے حصے سے ٹیک لگانے کی ضرورت ہے تو آپ کو گھر جاکر جھپکنا چاہئے۔ اور مجھے لگتا ہے کہ یہ سچ ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، آپ نے ایک کرسی پر پیٹھ رکھی ہے اور آپ لوگوں کو بدترین کرنسی کے ل invite دعوت دیتے ہیں۔

ہاں ، اس سے کامل معنی ملتے ہیں۔ اور سوچنے کے ل that یہ ایک اچھی چیز ہے۔ اور بالکل اسی طرح ، میں ابھی کھڑے اور پاخانہ پر بیٹھنے اور پھر اسکواٹنگ کے درمیان اختلاط کر رہا ہوں ، جو میں پوڈ کاسٹ کرتے وقت عام طور پر میں کرتا ہوں۔ لیکن میں متجسس ہوں ، جیسے ، ظاہر ہے کہ یہ کرسیاں میرے خیال میں شروع کرنے کے لئے ایک عمدہ جگہ اور بنانے میں اس طرح کا آسان سوئچ ہے۔ لیکن کیا آپ کے پاس کوئی دوسرا نظریہ یا سفارشات ہیں جو ہم اپنے دفتروں ، اپنے گھروں ، جیسے ، میرے لئے ، اور بہت سارے گھریلو ماں سننے ، ہمارے بچوں کے کلاس رومز کو اپ گریڈ اور بہتر کرسکتے ہیں؟

تو میں آپ کو ان سب کو پسند کرنا پسند کروں گا۔ مثال کے طور پر ، میں جتنا عام طور پر آگے بڑھتا ہوں ، اتنا ہی بہتر محسوس ہوتا ہوں۔ تو میرے پاس بیلنس بورڈ ہے جس پر میں کھڑا ہوں گا۔ کبھی کبھی جب میں کام کرتا ہوں تو ، میرے پاس الٹا بینچ ہوتا ہے اور میں خون بہہنے کے ل every ہر چند گھنٹوں میں ہینڈ اسٹینڈ کرنے کی کوشش کروں گا۔ اور پھر ایسی چیزیں جیسے یوگا سوئنگ اور یوگا چٹائی صرف مختلف پوزیشنوں میں آنے کے قابل ہوں اور جب بھی میں کام کرنے سے وقفہ لیتی ہوں۔ لیکن آپ کی تحقیق کی بنیاد پر ، کیا ایسے طریقے ہیں کہ ہم اپنے ماحول کو اس طرح اپ گریڈ کرسکیں؟ یا آپ کے پاس اور کیا مشورے ہوں گے؟

ڈاکٹر آسلر: ایسا لگتا ہے کہ آپ کو کام کرنے کے لئے دنیا کا بہترین کھیل کا میدان پسند ہے۔ میرا مطلب ہے کہ آپ کے سارے حل لاجواب ہیں۔ لیکن ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ایک معیاری کیوبیکل میں بہت سے لوگوں کے پاس آپ کے آدھے سامان کے ل room گنجائش نہیں ہوگی۔ اور اسی طرح ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، اگر ہم لوگوں کو نیچے جانے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں تو ، آپ جانتے ہو ، بیٹھنے کے لable چیزوں کا انتظام کرنے والا ایک پورٹ فولیو ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ایک فعال کرسی جو انہیں بیٹھنے کے دوران حرکت میں آنے دیتی ہے وہ شروع کرنے کے لئے ایک اچھی جگہ ہے۔ General Chat Chat Lounge

اسکویٹنگ کا کاروبار عام طور پر انسانوں کے لئے اس قدر خوفناک کرنسی ہے۔ لیکن بدقسمتی سے ، تقریبا کوئی مغربی بالغ بیٹھنے کے اہل نہیں ہیں۔ یقینا All تمام بچے کر سکتے ہیں ، لیکن وہ اس صلاحیت سے محروم ہوجاتے ہیں کیونکہ ہم اسے صرف استعمال نہیں کرتے ہیں۔ ہیمسٹرنگ سخت ہوجاتی ہے اور لوگ محض قسم کے بیٹھنے کی صلاحیت کھو دیتے ہیں۔ اسے واپس لانا بھاری لفٹ ہے۔ اور میں نے اسے قریب قریب ہی اپنے پاس موڑ لیا ہے ، لیکن یہ بہت سارے لوگوں سے اس کرنسی کو واپس حاصل کرنے کی کوشش کرنے کے لئے کہہ رہا ہے۔ لہذا ، جب تک آپ فون پر بات کر رہے ہو ، اٹھتے ہو ، چلتے ہو ، صرف اس طرح کا بدلاؤ کا کاروبار ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، واٹر کولر پر جتنی دفعہ ہوسکتے ہو ، کرسی پر بیٹھ جائیں جو آپ کو حرکت دینے دیتا ہے۔ And if your work environment lets you lie down and stretch or do handstands against the wall, well, that’s so much for the better.

Katie: I love that. ہاں I think that’s another thing. Obviously, like people used to joke that like…and actually, there was a study that’s for a while that there were some metrics in which smokers were healthier than non-smokers, and they confused all these doctors and it was because they were at least walking every couple of hours to go outside. So they were getting outside, they were walking, they were moving, whereas non-smokers weren’t. But the lesson we should take from that is obviously not to smoke, but that we should have some habit that every hour or two, we have a reason to get up and maybe we’re hydrated enough that we need to go to the restroom every two hours or we’re just gonna go outside in the sun for five minutes. But just building that in as a habit rather than just sitting all day long. And there’s so many other benefits to that as well.

Dr. Osler: Well, you could take up smoking or you could get yourself a dog and I think a dog is a much better choice.

Kate: I like that. Yeah, we should all just get a puppy. That’s a great idea.

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Katie: So I wanna talk a little bit more about how we can actually get these chairs in schools and offices because I know that you guys have made these plans available and I would love to actually help, like this podcast be an impetus for creating change. And there’s a lot of moms listening who have, of course, best interest in our kids sitting in a better posture and getting the benefits that we’ve talked about. So let’s talk a little bit more about the practical ways. I know that these have been used now in offices in schools. What’s the best way for us as parents and as even just members of society to get these to schools?

Dr. Osler: Yeah, so we’ve set up a website,, so And it’s a website that has some information about our ButtOn Chair Project as well as the computer numeric control file. So you can set up a CNC router to make as many of these things as you want out of a sheet of plywood. We also have plans that were worked out by one of the shop teachers here in Essex, Vermont so that if you don’t have access to a CNC router, you can make these chairs one at a time. There’s a pattern that you just glue on the plywood, cut it out, put it together, and there’s your ButtOn Chair.

And we’re also partnering with a company in the northeast corner of Vermont who just make these things, we’ll put them in a box and sell them to people basically at cost. The idea of, you know, people who don’t have tools but want one of these chairs to try out, you know, we’ll put it in a box and send it to you. But we really think that the best way is for people to, you know, make them by the hundreds for their school system. So people can try them out, we also have plans for making them one at a time with standard hand tools.

Katie: Any idea how people would go about finding one of these large scale router machines in their area? Is it something that like any kind of school would have or university or home improvement store? Where can people find those?

Dr. Osler: So for a while, I was using the CNC router at our makerspace here in Burlington, Vermont, which is called the Generator. But many high schools have them now. You know, they’re just part of shop class these days. It’s, you know, the modern way to cut wood. So almost any, you know, small to moderate-size city will have access to a CNC router someplace. Just last week I was in New Hampshire in Lebanon, New Hampshire visiting a school system that had found a mill shop that had a CNC router, and the guy got so excited about the school’s project that he donated the plywood and donated the CNC router to make a bunch of chairs for the school. So these partnerships can arise, you know, quite organically, when people have the machinery and are just eager to give back to the school system.

Katie: Yeah, I think that’s great. And I could see even if the high schools, for instance, had these, a lot of high school students have to do service hours. At a certain point, like this could be a great thing they could make for younger grades or for special needs students or for, you know, Montessori schools. Or universities I think sometimes have these or if there are Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts who are looking for a project that they could do, I think this would be amazing. And it sounds like a not super difficult thing that they could tackle that would make a big difference in their communities. Or even just parents, like that example you gave who are willing to donate the materials for it. I’d love to see this used more widely in school and I think, like you mentioned, we’d see some big behavioral changes if we could implement these more widely.

Dr. Osler: Yeah, no, it’s been fun to watch, you know, the community kind of embrace the idea and embrace each other, you know, as a way to, you know, support the school system by, you know, helping them make stuff. And the idea of high school students, you know, who have to do shop projects will find that they could have a shop project that actually produced something of use rather than just another cutting board.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m even thinking like this would be cool to, not just in our schoolroom, but even in like a kitchen to change out for the chairs at the table. Because our family actually thought about doing the Japanese-style table, which is low on the ground sitting Indian style, but we have a very energetic dog that would make that difficult right now.

Dr. Osler: We have these chairs all over the house, of course. And when guests come for dinner, they’re all a little astonished that they’re gonna be sitting on something so weird. But everybody adapts to it pretty quickly and it’s sort of fun, actually.

Katie: That was gonna be my next question is I’m sure kids can adapt immediately because my kids will get on all these crazy like surf trainers or they get on skis or a surfboard for the first time and they learn it in 12 seconds. But for adults, is there much of an adjustment period or is it more really, like you said, within even just a minute or two, you start to see the difference?

Dr. Osler: Well, people’s posture immediately responds. You can just see it really in front of your eyes. But many people will have very deconditioned core musculatures from, you know, in some cases, decades of just sitting slumped in front of a computer. And for those people we say, you know, give it 15 or 20 minutes the first day and kind of work up from there. And depending on how deconditioned people are, sometimes it takes even a few weeks before people are sitting comfortably all day. But really, you know, we’ve got people who are in their 80s who sit on our chairs all day long and are delighted because as one of these old guys said, “For the first time in my life, I’ve got a six-pack.” And it is just very cool to hear an 83-year-old say that.

Katie: Wow, that’s really drastic and probably appealing. I mean certainly, like, core strength is something I’ve struggled with since having children since my muscles have been moved around so much. And it makes me think, I wonder is this also really beneficial for pregnant women? Because when I was pregnant, I made an effort to sit on a big yoga ball because my midwife said, you know, it’s much better for you if you’re not just sitting and arching your lower back and that you want your pelvis open and you want your hips open and you want your posture good so that when it comes time to deliver the baby, everything’s in the right position. So I was much more cognizant of that when I was pregnant. But I’m wondering if this would also really help a lot of pregnant women with some of those common complaints like sciatica and lower back pain and restless leg and just all those things that can also be a result of too much sitting, especially when you have increased blood flow like that.

Dr. Osler: Yeah, no, we have just a handful of women who’ve been through pregnancy, you know, kind of sitting on our chairs. And the early reports are very positive. But to actually do a research project, you need a lot of pregnant women and a spreadsheet and a few other things. So we don’t have scientific results. But we do have some pretty enthusiastic women. Squatting, of course, is a terrific posture to be practicing if you’re getting ready to have children as well if squatting is something that you can easily still do.

Katie: For those of us who…because I’m with you, I’m almost back to being able to do a natural squat. But like you said, a lot of people, this is something we lose the ability to do, even though all of my children, as soon as they could start walking, that was the first thing I would notice is they can do a perfect squat and they can stay like that for a really long time. And it’s like everything, I tell my kids don’t lose the ability to do all these things you can do, the pull-ups, the handstands, the squatting. It’s so much harder to get it back. But for those of us who are adults who have lost the ability to do some of these things, do you have any tips for learning to get it back? I would guess just active sitting and better posture it definitely is a step toward that. But are there other ways we can nurture these good movement patterns?

Dr. Osler: Well, active sitting is a long way there because you just have to make one change. You just have to take your Herman Miller Aeron chair and put it out in the garage and put an active chair under your desk. And then you get immense benefit really every minute that you’re sitting every day. Other than that, you know, the activities that appeal to you are the ones that you’ll be able to continue. So if you love yoga, yoga is a terrific solution. But if you love martial arts, martial arts is a terrific way to, you know, stretch and condition and so on. And so, you know, I think you just have to follow your passion, but rather than turn body maintenance into another task that you have to do every day. The genius of active sitting is that you get to do it every day, but you only have to decide to do it once by swapping out your chair.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. I’m a big fan of these, kind of, like passive changes that make a big payoff. And I think this is an easy one. Like, it’s not like something you have to remember to go work out every day or you have to remember to take supplements every day. It’s something, like you said, you do it one time and then you’re good. And another example of that for me is I have something called a chilliPad that goes under my sheet in my bed and it can heat or cool your bed. For me, I use it to cool my bed and it can go down to as low as 55 degrees. There’s all this research showing that sleeping in a cooler environment is really beneficial, but it takes a lot of energy to cool the entire house to a lower temperature. So by putting this in my room and programming it, now I sleep at a cooler temperature. It burns fat. It does all these things, improves sleep. But I don’t have to think about it anymore.

So I’m with you. I’m a huge fan of these onetime changes that can like have lasting benefits for our health. So there’s just another reason I love this and wanted to make sure I shared this with everyone listening today because I think it’s a low-cost, easy change, like you said, that can make a huge difference, especially with we’re seeing such rampant back problems and all these issues in our kids. And it’s that onetime easy switch.

Dr. Osler: I like the idea of burning more fat in a colder environment. And it turns out that babies can’t shiver, they just don’t have the neurologic setup to do it. And yet they have a huge surface area and get cold easily. So in order to keep babies from dying of hypothermia, they come equipped with something called brown fat, which is a different texture and color of fat that’s just typically around the back of the child and maybe around the kidneys and some other places. And what it does is it just burns glucose and generates heat to keep the child warm. It’s like a built-in space heater. It’s a very cool workaround for keeping babies warm when they don’t have the normal mechanisms of shivering.

But it was discovered that adults actually retain some brown fat and it can even be induced to proliferate. So by exposing yourself to colder environments, like finish your shower with a cold blast, you can induce your brown fat to grow and prosper and burn calories for you. It’s another workaround to increase your overall body health just by subjecting yourself to a colder environment. Like a shower is a very easy thing to make cold if you’re willing to do that. But it’s a decision you have to make after every shower.

Katie: Yeah, exactly. And I know one thing, an objection I commonly hear on things like this, is people say, “Well, that’s not a natural thing. Like, we just shouldn’t have to go out of our way to do all of these things.” And my response always is that never before have we faced so many of these negative inputs, like the idea of sitting for most of the day, or like the idea of being temperature-controlled at all times. This was never available in human history until now. And because of all of these negative inputs from pollution, from our poor food supply, etc., we need to now be proactive at counteracting them. And so when it’s small changes you can make that are not an effort every single day, that’s the easy starting point to, to me, 80/20 it and then do the hard stuff.

Dr. Osler: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s astonishing that the vast intelligence of our species has been devoted to making our lives “better.” But really, you know, by having food constantly available and the temperature constantly controlled, it’s been a catastrophe for our biologic life. And so, you know, trying to get back to our hunter-gatherer roots by at least experiencing cold occasionally or experiencing motion constantly is an essential part of being healthy in the 21st century.

Katie: Exactly. And my take on it too is that I’m a big fan of kind of the Pareto principle, 80/20 rule, and I think that you start with the biggest and easiest changes. Like I said, so sleep is something we all do every single day. Optimize your sleep environment. That’s an easy change you can make that has big dividends. Then we’re all sitting so much. If you can optimize the way that you’re sitting and optimize your posture, that has a big payoff. Same thing with like food. Most of us eat every single day unless we’re fasting. So optimize your food situation but then also occasionally mix it up and fast or do something different and work on that metabolic flexibility.

But because we live in a time when all of these things are always available, we have to be a little bit more intentional, like you said, about mixing it up and keeping our body in its optimal state. So I love that you are making this possible with this act of sitting even from kids from a young age. I think that’s such a gift to them. And I love that you have just open-sourced it and made it available to all of us.

Dr. Osler: Well, you know, I’m not gonna have another idea this good. So it’s extremely exciting for me to have so many people embrace it and you too, it’s terrific to be on your show.

Katie: Well, thank you for joining me. I, of course, will link to all of the things that we’ve talked about today in the show notes at So if you guys are listening while hopefully doing an activity or moving or especially driving, don’t worry about writing them down when you’re driving. Just go check out the show notes, and you’ll have a link to where you can download the plans for these chairs and learn more about how they work as well as to some of Dr. Osler’s research and writing and work that I’ve found. But just for people listening, Dr. Osler, where can they find you and continue learning?

Dr. Osler: So we have a website, that has a blog and, you know, other stuff. And I did a TED Talk, I don’t know, about eight or nine months ago on the whole ButtOn Chair Project of making chairs for free for schools. If you were to google TEDx and Osler, you’ll find my TED Talk pretty quickly.

Katie: Awesome. Well, like I said, I’ll make sure all of those are linked in the show notes. And for all of you guys who are listening who are parents or educators, I think this is a really cool thing we can do for our kids and our schools. And so I hope that you will check it out and see if it’s something that you can implement. And I also hope that this episode has raised awareness for all of us just on little changes we can make to begin moving more day-to-day without having to run a marathon or do anything extreme. But just those little movements that can let us have, you know, 6-pack abs when we’re 80 years old. So again, Dr. Osler, thank you for your work and for making this available and for your time today. And I am really grateful that you were here.

Dr. Osler: Well, thanks so much, Katie. It was fun.

Katie: And thanks to all of you for listening, for sharing your valuable asset, your time, with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did and I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.

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