The Tapping Solution to Reduce Anxiety With Nick Ortner


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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the “Valence Mama Podcast”. I’m from KatieWellinsma.com And I’m here today with Nick Ortner, CEO of The Tapping Solution, a company with a mainstream mission, a simple, effective, natural healing method called emotional freedom techniques or tapping. Known as We’re really keen on it, and we even provide a step-by-step walkthrough. And you can do it in the episode with us and try it out for yourself. But tapping is a healing style that combines ancient Chinese acupressure and modern psychology. Nick explains how this event works and the many benefits it can bring, including many things that can help reduce it. He is also the author of numerous books on napping and the producer of a breakthrough documentary called “The Tapping Solution”.

They are all embedded in the show’s notes. And it recently released an app called Tapping Solution, which is on my phone. And there are very simple tapping exercises in which you can go through stress, sleep, discomfort, emotional eating, learning, exercise, literally everything, fear of flying, everything. Be sure to check it out. But I think you’ll really enjoy all the events that taping can have on both our psychology and our physiology. And without further ado, let’s jump. Nick, welcome and thanks for being here.

Nick: My pleasure

Katie: I’m really excited to have you here because I think it’s a really helpful and important topic, especially for moms, which the majority of our audience is listening to. And I think that can really be beneficial for families too. And I have a lot of questions that I want to ask you today. But to start, I think a lot of people are familiar with tapping and this has become more popular. I mean, the work you do has really helped. But for everyone who doesn’t know, let’s get started really wide and can you tell what is tapping?

Nick: Yes, exactly because tapping or EFT, the emotional freedom technique, we call it tapping because we are physically tapping at the ends of our body’s meridians. And the latest research shows that when we tap on these points of the meridians, we focus our attention on the stress, anxiety, depression, whatever is happening in our lives, in the brain. Sends a signal to calm the amygdala. And many of your listeners will know that the amygdala is the action of the almond in the brain, a flight or a frozen reaction. So, when you are under pressure, when you are worried, when you are overwhelmed, it is the part of our brain that is firing. And what tapping sends a calming signal. You know, I just woke up every morning and said, “Wait, what are we doing? Like, why are we tapping ourselves? But I know you have to Experiences. And whoever has tried it is one of those things that once you try it, you go, “Wow. Something is happening here. Like, I was under pressure and now I’m not. I was restless and I am no longer. I was holding something. You know, there are many things in our lives. And it seems that with all the social media and the way we are running in this modern age, there are a lot of things that we just drag on and it feels like we can’t leave it. Tapping helps break this pressure so that the tension can really go deep.

Katie: Absolutely. And it’s certainly not the perfect format, but I find that tapping is often categorized as something you can’t really do directly, like, measure instant impact, and sometimes It is doubtful that this will be helpful. Like, for example, I’m very anti-plastic. I always encourage people to get rid of as much plastic as possible in their daily lives. And often I get pushback from people because they don’t feel like they can see the difference, like, you can’t see BPA specifically. So it’s not such a big deal. And I know you can really make a quick difference from tapping at times, but I feel like people sometimes try to write it like, I just don’t understand it or it’s power. Or is it energy. So can you explain a little bit more depth on all these levels, physically and emotionally, on all those levels, like what’s really happening?

Nick: Yeah, that’s right, so there are a lot of ingredients that I think make tapping really magical. So we have, you know, the physical component. And when we start tapping, we start tapping on the back of the hand, called the chop chop point, the hand turning. And we start by bringing forward what we are stressing, what we are worried about, what we are overwhelmed with. Now, one of the things that is different about tapping as a general philosophy, let’s say, on other positive thinking things, that I believe in positive thinking, I’m all about it, but With tapping, we always start at the negative. Or the reality of what we are feeling. And I get two reactions from people, first, when I share it with them. Sometimes they go, “Oh my word, I get into such a positive thought that I’m afraid of anything negative or I’m scared, you know, amplify it or, you know, Anything negative becomes the focus of it. So you find that resistance or what you eventually get, “I feel about how I feel. Telling the truth is nice. “So, anger, for example, like something happened to you in your day and you are really angry with it. And if we are to help you in this world, We are better off If you are trying to be, we can go, “OK. You know, this person really annoyed me or they said something that annoyed me, or whatever, but I just needed to allow it.

So I’ll try to give it a go. “And what people usually do is they bury it, right? So letting go is swallowing it. Now, what that tapping allows us to do is … you know, like tapping by hand. Even though I’m very angry, I choose to rest now. So we give it a voice. We bring it forward. We speak our truth about it. And then when we’re doing it, So we’re bringing this to mind, we can think of our brain, you know, all the circuits in our brain are firing with that anger, it’s thinking about it. Then we’re tapping. So we Sending this calm signal to Magdala. We’re calming the body. We’re like sending this responsive signal – and we do that a couple of rounds – and we can really tap some later in the podcast. So that people can experience it. We send that calm gesture. We speak the truth about how we feel. Often, we know that as we give it a voice, we say, we are angry. , “Well, I’m so angry. I’m not sure they did, “and then suddenly anger turned into sadness or distress.” Well, I’m not so angry anymore, I’m hurt. I don’t know how it happened. “And then we go through these stages of emotion and permission to go.

Now, generally, you’ll hear people go, “Well, it took me 10 years to overcome that anger,” or five years, or a year, or a month right now. I think one of the beautiful things about tapping is that when we give it a voice, when we bring our bodies into it, which we are just accustomed to neglecting our bodies, when we let our bodies down. When we bring it in, we release it. Things more quickly. We still go through these stages, I’m angry, I’m hurt, then I’m sad, then I get more aware of it and then I’m ready to forgive. Now, sometimes it can be 10 minutes or it can be a couple sessions, and it can go even further. But I think it’s part of the magic of action beyond physical tapping, which calms the body. I mean, if you’re pressed and pressed, you can just tap on the tips. You will find that it brings some calming energy. But the psychological component beyond that, the part of it that says, “I’m angry, I’m upset, I’m overwhelmed,” is when we voice it, it’s a relief to ourselves and then we can move on. ۔

Katie: Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I myself know how dramatically it can affect people, and reading what you guys have done. But let’s talk about some of them, how it can really save you from these emotional and physical problems. For example, what are some examples of people you see in your work that are capable of giving people away?

Nick: Yeah, great question. So, you know, I made a documentary about tapping a decade ago. It started my journey here. And it was actually called the “try on everything” phrase, used by Gary Craig, one of the beginners. After that the movie changed to “The Tapping Solution”, most people thought “try it on everything” kind of butter was spread or … you know, that wasn’t the right branding for us. But I still like the phrase, “try on everything” because when we look at the aspect of what can work on it, it can work on many things. And the reason for that depends on a lot of our challenges, the basic, you know, the challenges, the weight loss, and the healthy eating, the basic financial challenges, not making good decisions, not financially breaking, a lot of chronic pain. Have to do There are patterns in the body of stress and anxiety. So really, if you look around your life and you go, “Where are the places I got stuck in?” What are the places I keep thinking about over and over again?

What are the places where I walk in the same style, where I do something I don’t want to do, then I beat myself up about it. Then I’m ashamed to change myself, and then I change one day. And then I fall again and I run this cycle. Underneath it all these pressure patterns, these patterns of anxiety, these patterns of overwhelm. So really, wherever you are trapped in your life, you can use tapping. At the simplest level, anxiety is so big in people’s lives these days. We have a new tapping solution app, which we can talk about later, but a famous session there is an uncomfortable meditation. It’s 10 minutes. I think we are close to completing 180,000 individual sessions, which makes you realize how upset people are. And we see that in just 10 minutes, anxiety has dropped 42%. So much 10 minutes, half the trouble is over, just taking a couple of deep breaths, recognizing and tapping into what you’re feeling.

Katie: That’s amazing. And I think an important part of that is addressing this emotional aspect. And as you said, speaking this thing first, actually speaking it out loud and the sense of relief that comes with it. And I think maybe this is an area we are starting to understand more or at least start to understand how important the emotional aspect and the mental aspect are. And from my own experience, for example, being weak for a minute, since I had six children and Hashimoto. And as such, I feel like I’ve struggled with weight for a long time because of many factors. And at the same time, I know that my background is in nutrition. I know the things to do and I was eating a really clean diet. I exercised regularly, I got sleep. I knew these things and I was doing it. And it wasn’t until I really paid attention to the emotional aspect that it changed. And I wasn’t even trying to lose weight at that time. I was just trying to be an emotionally healthy person so that I could be the best mom for my kids. And as such, I was really deeply touched by this emotional aspect. And tapping was part of it for me. And then my body began to reflect the change without which I should be able to cope with it. And instead of trying to fight the problem, it was a big change of release and just a change of mind. But let’s talk about how important it is, I know you’ve written about it, the emotional aspect of it is physical health.

Nick: Oh, that’s a big deal. And look, what attracts me to it, is its value. Like, the journey you’ve been on, I totally get it. This is a journey that most of us take. I mean, we’re pretty conditioned to think, “OK. So, what do I do if I’m not well?” I either, if you go the traditional medical route, you take pills, Go to the doctor, for example, they do a blood test. They are all physical things, and then the answer is a white pill, or a blue pill, or a red pill, or whatever. Or if you are in the world that you and I live in, then, well, okay, it’s diet, nutrition, and exercise, and sleep, all of which are massive and I’m in them. I care about them every day. But this emotional component, its two components, both emotional traumas and past plays. Therefore, it has been clinically proven, there is a large study called the ACE study, which states that childhood traumas, negative childhood experiences, cancer related, smoking rates, all kinds of… diabetes. Are. Like, all these things where you go, “Wait a minute, like heart disease, when you’re 10 years old, how does heart disease be linked to emotional trauma?” The relationship is there. This is a strong study. It’s been duplicated and we’re seeing more and more. The challenge is, in our world, we don’t see those connections.

It’s a little difficult to go now, “Okay. If I let go of the anger I have about this person, maybe my digestion will improve. But that is exactly the case. And one way is to just try it out. Like, start watching, as you said. You decide for yourself, “What do you know? I’ll become an emotionally healthy person,” which is a big goal. And then you’ll see, “Wow. Look at what’s happening to my health.” I think there’s two things going on with it, just the tension, the anxiety, the depression, that has inflicted our systems. I know that most of your listeners and your readers are unlikely to pick up a bottle of Diet Coke and have breakfast. Okay fine? It’s not like it’s going to happen. They are well educated. You know, they’re not taking Honey Nut Cheers for breakfast. They have no sugar. When it comes to things, they make good choices. But are they waking up angry? Are they waking up? Are they holding a grudge against anyone? And it is my belief that if you are controlling anger, you will be awake in the morning, drinking a diet coke. It’s just the reality of its effects on your body. We are getting more and more science and research every day that showcases in particular. And I see stories every day where people go, “I suffered so long and tapping was the source that helped me to break it. It helped me to open up the place.

What happens, I think especially, is, I’m very grateful to the internet, thankful for the information we have because we can learn things that are mainstream medical, you know. , The kingdom does not teach us. The flip side is that it can be very heavy. تو یہ اس طرح ہے ، “اوہ میرے گوش ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، ٹھیک ہے ، مجھے ہاشموٹو کی تشخیص ہوئی ہے۔ اب مجھے پڑھنا ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، 18،000 مختلف مضامین جو شاید کسی نہ کسی شکل ، شکل یا شکل میں ایک دوسرے سے متصادم ہیں۔ میں کوشش کر رہا ہوں کہ اچھ dietے غذا کا انتخاب کیا جا.۔ اور پھر میں نے کسی کو پڑھتے ہوئے بتایا کہ غذا کا انتخاب غلط انتخاب تھا لہذا اب میں نے اس پر زور دیا ہے۔ ” اور میں کتنے لوگوں کی تعداد دیکھتا ہوں اور مجھے یقین ہے کہ آپ انہیں ہر وقت بھی دیکھتے ہیں ، کیٹی ، جو صرف ٹھیک ہیں ، جیسے ، “مجھے نہیں معلوم کہ اب اور کیا کرنا ہے۔ جیسے ، مجھے کیا کھانا چاہئے؟ تم جانتے ہو مجھے کیا کرنا ہے؟ جیسے ، میں اس کے بارے میں فیصلے کیسے کرسکتا ہوں؟ ” جب ہم اپنی جذباتی تندرستی کے بارے میں سوچتے ہیں ، جب ہم تناؤ اور اضطراب کے بارے میں سوچتے ہیں ، جب ہم اپنی زندگیوں میں مغلوب کے بارے میں سوچتے ہیں اور ہم اس سے پہلے مخاطب ہوتے ہیں تو ہمیں ایک وضاحت مل جاتی ہے کہ ہمیں کیا کرنا ہے۔ تب ہم واقعی اپنی بصیرت کو سن سکتے ہیں اور جا سکتے ہیں ، “ٹھیک ہے ، تم جانتے ہو کیا؟ جب میں نے یہ کھایا تو ، میں نے بہتر محسوس کیا۔ اور جب میں نے یہ کھایا ، میں نے نہیں کیا۔ ” تو شاید یہ ایک علامت ہے۔ شفا یابی کے سفر کو جاری رکھنے کے ل Maybe ہوسکتا ہے کہ مجھے سننی چاہئے۔

کیٹی: یہ اتنا اچھا نقطہ ہے۔ مجھے لگتا ہے کہ ہم بہت ہیں… آپ ٹھیک کہتے ہیں ، ہم اس عمر میں معلومات کے زیادہ بوجھ پر ہیں جہاں آپ مفلوج ہوسکتے ہیں کیونکہ اتنی متضاد معلومات موجود ہیں اور پھر آپ کے پاس ان ساری چیزوں کا وزن ہے جو آپ نہیں کر رہے ہیں۔ جانتے ہو کہ آپ کو کرنا چاہئے ، اور اس کے ساتھ منسلک تمام جذبات۔ اور میں “ٹیپنگ سلوشن” کتاب میں جانتا ہوں ، آپ اس کے بارے میں یہ بھی بات کرتے ہیں کہ ان تمام مختلف قسم کی جذباتی چیزوں کے بارے میں جن کی ہم نے بات کی ہے وہ جسمانی طور پر ظاہر ہوسکتی ہے۔ اور یہاں کس طرح کی مثالیں موجود ہیں کہ ٹیپ استعمال کرنے والے افراد اور دراصل انتہائی قابل توجہ ، گہری جسمانی تبدیلیاں ، جن میں کمر میں درد جیسی چیزیں شامل ہیں۔ تو ، کیا آپ اس پر چل سکتے ہیں جب کچھ لوگ دیکھتے ہی دیکھتے ہیں جب وہ ٹیپنگ شامل کرنا شروع کردیتے ہیں اور یہ جسمانی طور پر کس طرح ظاہر ہوتا ہے؟

نک: ہاں ، بالکل لہذا درد… میری دوسری کتاب “درد سے نجات کے لئے ٹیپنگ حل” تھی اور میں اس حصے میں اس سمت چلا گیا کیوں کہ میں نے جو نتائج درد کے لئے دیکھے وہ محض ناقابل یقین تھے۔ آپ کو ایک دو مثالیں دینے کے ل I ، میں چھ یا سات سال پہلے ہو گا ہاؤس میں تقریر کر رہا تھا۔ ہم واشنگٹن ، ڈی سی میں ہیں۔ یہ ان بڑے کانفرنس سینٹر میں سے ایک ہے ، جو وہاں کے ہزار افراد کی تعداد میں ہے۔ اور میں ٹیپ کرنے کی بنیادی باتیں سکھاتا ہوں اور پھر کہتا ہوں ، “ٹھیک ہے۔ یہاں تکلیف کی حالت میں کوئی بھی ، اپنا ہاتھ اٹھائے۔ اور میں کسی کو نہیں جانتا ، مجھے نہیں معلوم کہ وہ کتنے دن تکلیف میں رہے ، وہ کیا کر رہے ہیں۔ لوگوں کے ایک گروپ نے اپنے ہاتھ اٹھائے۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، عام طور پر ، تقريبا 20 20٪ سامعین اپنے ہاتھ اٹھاتے ہیں ، جو محض اتنا تباہ کن اور غمگین ہے کہ لوگ اس قدر تکلیف میں ہیں۔ لیکن انھوں نے ایک دو جوڑے کو بلایا ، اور ان میں سے ایک ، جو اوپر آئی تھیں ، وہ اگلی صف میں تھیں ، اس کا نام کیتھی تھا ، اور میں نے کہا ، “کیا ہو رہا ہے؟” اور اس نے کہا ، “مجھے دانت میں درد ہے اور یہ 10 میں سے 9 یا 10 کی سطح پر ہے ، اور میں نے اسے 3 سال سے حاصل کیا ہے ، اور میرے پاس جڑ کی نہریں ہیں ، اور میں اینٹی بائیوٹکس کے 18 کورس لے چکا ہوں اور ، یہ ، اور دوسری اور یہ سب چیزیں۔ ” تو ، آپ جانتے ہو ، اس صورتحال میں آپ جاتے ہیں ، “ٹھیک ہے۔ ٹھیک ہے ، اس کے دانت میں انفکشن ہے۔ اور اصل میں اس کے بارے میں دلچسپ بات یہ ہے کہ اس واقعے سے ایک ہفتہ قبل اس نے اپنے دانت کا ایکسرے حاصل کرلیا تھا اور اسے صاف طور پر انفکشن ہوا تھا۔ لہذا ، ہم نے آس پاس کھودنا شروع کیا اور ہم نے خود ہی درد کو تھپتھپایا۔

بس یہ کرنا آسان ہے ، حالانکہ مجھے یہ تکلیف ہے ، صرف اس کا اعتراف کرنا۔ اور پھر میں نے اس سے پوچھا ، “یہ درد کب سے شروع ہوا؟” اس نے ایک لمحہ کے لئے رک کر اس کے بارے میں سوچا۔ اور اس نے کہا ، “واہ! میں نے یہ تعلق کبھی نہیں بنایا۔ اس وقت میری والدہ کی وفات کا آغاز ہوا۔ انہوں نے کہا ، “یہ تکلیف دہ واقعہ تھا۔ ہم اپنے خاندانی سفر کے لئے لاس ویگاس میں تھے۔ مجھے یقین ہے کہ اسے دل کا دورہ پڑا تھا۔ یہ صرف ایک خوفناک ، خوفناک تجربہ تھا۔ پھر اسے احساس ہوا کہ جب اس کے دانت میں درد شروع ہوا۔ لہذا ، ہم نے اس تجربے پر کچھ ٹیپنگ کی۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، آپ اس کے ساتھ ہونے والے صدمے کا تصور کر سکتے ہیں ، اس کے ساتھ آنے والا غم ، اس کے ساتھ آنے والے جسم کا جذباتی ٹول۔ اس 15 منٹ میں اس کا درد ہم نے مل کر کیا ، ایک دو یا تین تک جا پہنچا۔ تو ، وہاں ایک بہت بڑی شفٹ تھی۔ اور پھر وہ گھر چلا گیا۔ میں نے اسے اپنی کتاب کی ایک کاپی دی ، اور وہ ٹیپنگ میں شامل ہوگئی ، مزید گئی ، داخلی کام کیا ، جذباتی کام کیا ، اس مسئلے سے زیادہ نمٹایا ، اور پھر اس کا دانت میں درد دور ہوگیا۔ تو یہ ، جیسے ، درد سے پاک تھا۔ اب ، کہانی کے بارے میں واقعتا cool اچھی بات یہ ہے کہ اس نے چند ہفتوں بعد دانتوں کے ڈاکٹر کے پاس واپس جانا ہوا ، ایک اور رے کیا ، انفیکشن ختم ہوگیا۔ اب ، لوگ کہتے ہیں ، “ٹھیک ہے۔ ٹھیک ہے ، رکو ، تو کیا میریڈیئنز کے اختتامی مقامات پر ٹیپ لگانا انفیکشن کا علاج کر سکتا ہے؟ ” اور جواب نہیں ہے۔ لیکن جو ہوا وہ یہ جذباتی حد سے زیادہ تھی۔ اسے یہ تناؤ تھا۔

اسے یہ بےچینی تھی۔ ٹیپنگ نے جسم کو پرسکون کرنے میں مدد کی۔ اس سے اس غم اور اس غم کو رہا کرنے میں مدد ملی ، اور مجھے یقین ہے کہ وہاں موجود غصہ ، جو کچھ چل رہا تھا ، اور اس نے اس کے جسم کو ٹھیک ہونے دیا۔ لہذا ، اس سے کوئی فرق نہیں پڑتا ہے کہ آپ جس معاملے سے نمٹ رہے ہیں ، آپ کے جسم کو ٹھیک ہونے کی اجازت دینے میں یہ ایک بہت بڑی سہولت ہوسکتی ہے۔ یہ لیم کا علاج نہیں ، یہ ہاشموٹو کا علاج نہیں ، یہ خود کار قوت علاج کا علاج نہیں ہے ، لیکن اس سے جسم کو اس شفا بخش حالت میں جانے میں مدد مل سکتی ہے۔ درد سے نجات کی کہانیاں… میرا مطلب ہے ، جیسے آپ جانتے ہو کہ یہ دانت میں درد تھا۔ میں آپ کو جان کے بارے میں بھی بتا سکتا ہوں ، جو ویتنام کا ایک تجربہ کار تھا ، دوائیوں پر کمر کی 30 سال تک درد ، متعدد سرجری۔ وہ دراصل اس دستاویزی فلم میں ہے جس کا میں نے پہلے ذکر کیا تھا ، کہ میں نے 10 سال پہلے فلمایا تھا… یا ٹھیک ہے ، ابھی 12 سال پہلے۔ اور وہ ہمارے پاس آیا۔ ہم نے اسے مینیسوٹا میں واقع اس کے گھر میں پہلے ہی فلمایا تھا۔ وہ شدید تکلیف میں ہے۔ وہ ایک واقعہ میں آیا ، ہم نے اس کے ساتھ ٹیپ کیا ، جنگ سے ہونے والے صدموں سے متعلق ٹیپ کیا ، اس کے بعد کے غصے پر ٹیپ کیا ، تب سے اس کے تمام تجربات پر ٹیپ کیا۔ اور وہ تیس سال میں پہلی بار درد سے پاک دوسری صبح اٹھا۔ میں بار بار یہ چیزیں دیکھتا ہوں۔

اب ، کبھی کبھی ، لوگ کچھ اور کام لیتے ہیں۔ یہ پانچ منٹ یا ایک دن کا معجزہ نہیں ہونے والا ہے ، لیکن دائمی درد کی بات کرنے پر دوبارہ سائنس اور تحقیق کی طرف اشارہ کرنا ، یہ ظاہر کرنا کہ یہ اکثر دماغ سے متعلق ہوسکتا ہے۔ ہاں ، ہمارے پاس… آپ کو معلوم ہے ، ہوسکتا ہے کہ وہاں کوئی صدمہ ہو ، یا چوٹ ہو ، یا جسم کو نقصان ہو ، لیکن سوال یہ ہے کہ یہ کیوں ٹھیک نہیں ہو رہا ہے؟ آپ جانتے ہیں ، اگر میں آج سہ پہر میں اپنے گھٹنے کو کھرچ ڈالوں گا ، تو میں اس پر ایک بینڈ ایڈ لگاؤں گا اور ابھی سے کچھ دن بعد ، یہ بہتر نظر آنے والا ہے اور یہ خارش کرنے والا ہے ، اور ایک ہفتہ سے یا دس دن بعد ، یہ ختم ہو چکا ہے. وہ جلد ٹھیک ہوگئی ، جسم ٹھیک ہو گیا۔ آپ پٹھوں کو کھینچنے کے بارے میں بھی یہی کچھ کہہ سکتے ہیں ، وقت کے ساتھ ، یہ ٹھیک ہوجائے گا۔ اگر آپ ٹانگ توڑتے ہیں تو ، ٹھیک ہے ، اس کو پھسل دیں اور پھر ٹھیک ہوجائے گا۔ لہذا ، جب ہم 20 ، 30 ، 40 سال سے دائمی درد کو دیکھتے ہیں تو ، کیا ہو رہا ہے کہ جسم ٹھیک نہیں ہو رہا ہے؟ دماغ میں کیا ہو رہا ہے ، کہ آپ کو بار بار وہی درد کا پیغام ملتا ہے؟ اور ٹیپنگ اس پیغام کو رکاوٹ ڈالنے میں مدد دے سکتی ہے جس سے جسم کو پرسکون کیا جاسکے اور پھر وہ اس شفا بخش حالت کی طرف بڑھیں۔

کیٹی: جی ہاں ، بالکل میرے خیال میں آپ نے جو کچھ کہا وہ اس قدر اہم ہے کہ یہ ان چیزوں میں سے کسی کا علاج نہیں ہے۔ اور میں آپ کو اور میں دونوں کو جانتا ہوں ، اس دنیا میں ہونے کے ناطے ، ہم بہت محتاط ہیں کہ کبھی بھی کسی چیز کا دعوی نہیں کرنا ایک علاج ہے۔ لیکن کم از کم میں نے جو پڑھا ہے اس سے ، ٹیپ کرنے کی کوشش کرنے کا کوئی فائدہ نہیں ہے۔ اس کے ساتھ کوئی خطرہ نہیں ہے۔ یہ نقصان دہ نہیں ہے۔ یہ ایسی دوا کی طرح نہیں ہے جس کے ضمنی اثرات ہوسکیں ، یہ آپ کو معلوم ہوگا ، خطرناک ہے۔ لیکن میں یہ یقینی بنانا چاہتا ہوں کہ میں اس پر درست ہوں۔ تو ، کیا ٹیپ کرنے کے لئے کوئی ممکنہ کمی ہے جس کے بارے میں آپ کو معلوم ہے؟

نک: ہاں۔ میرا مطلب ہے ، میں صرف اتنا ہی کہوں گا کہ اگر آپ کسی سنگین ذہنی حالت سے دوچار ہو رہے ہیں ، لہذا ، دوئبرووی ، شیزوفرینیا ، اگر آپ بہت سنگین صدمے سے دوچار ہو رہے ہیں ، لہذا اگر آپ ابھی پی ٹی ایس ڈی کے ساتھ معاملہ کر رہے ہیں تو ، آگے بڑھیں ٹیپنگ استعمال کرنے والے کسی پریکٹیشنر کو۔ اور یہاں کوچز ، اور تربیت یافتہ ماہر نفسیات ، اور تربیت یافتہ نفسیاتی ماہر ہیں جو اسے اپنے عمل میں لاتے ہیں کیونکہ وہ دیکھتے ہیں کہ یہ کتنا موثر ہے۔ ان بڑے ، زیادہ پیچیدہ امور میں یہی وہ جگہ ہے جو آپ پیشہ ورانہ مدد حاصل کرنا چاہتے ہیں ، اور آپ کسی ایسے شخص سے رہنمائی چاہتے ہیں جو آپ کو عمل میں لے جا سکے۔ اور دوسرا انتفاضہ میں یہ کہوں گا کہ اگر آپ کو ابھی تکلیف ہے اور آپ ڈاکٹر سے ملنے نہیں گئے ہیں تو ، پہلے چیک اپ کروائیں۔ جیسے ، درد ایک ٹیومر ہوسکتا ہے ، ٹھیک ہے؟ درد ایک بہت ہی سنگین ، حقیقی چیز ہوسکتی ہے۔ لیکن اگر آپ ڈاکٹر کے پاس گئے ہیں اور آپ کے پاس متعدد سرجری ہوچکی ہیں اور ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، وہ جانتے ہیں کہ کیا ہو رہا ہے ، یا انھیں اندازہ ہے کہ کیا ہو رہا ہے ، یا وہ نہیں جانتے کہ کیا ہو رہا ہے ، تو یہ دو ایک شاٹ جانے میں بالکل کوئی مضائقہ نہیں ہے ، آپ جانتے ہو ، 5 ، 10 ، 15 ، 20 منٹ تک ٹیپ کرتے اور صرف یہ دیکھ کر کہ آپ کیسا محسوس ہوتا ہے۔

کیٹی: بہت اچھے۔ اور یقینی طور پر ، میں اس طرح کی چیزوں کی سائنس کو سمجھنے کی کوشش کرنا پسند کرتا ہوں۔ اور میں جانتا ہوں کہ آپ لوگوں نے بھی اس کے بارے میں بہت کچھ لکھا ہے۔ لیکن آپ نے امیگدالا کا تذکرہ کیا اور آپ نے جسم میں تناؤ کے ردعمل کو پرسکون کرنے کا ذکر کیا۔ لہذا ، میں اس پر تھوڑی سی وضاحت پسند کروں گا کہ کیا یہ جسم کی مدد کر رہا ہے ، مثال کے طور پر ، پیرائے ہمدردی میں پڑ جائے؟ کیا آپ کو مثال کے طور پر ، دل کی شرح کی تغیر میں تبدیلی نظر آتی ہے؟ یہ میں نے ذاتی طور پر دیکھا ہے۔ لہذا ، میں نے نوٹ کیا جب میں نے ٹیپ کرنا شروع کیا ، تو میں نے اپنے دل کی شرح کی تغیرات میں ایک بہت بڑا اضافہ دیکھا اور میں ایک فرق بتا سکتا ہوں جب میں کروں اور ٹیپ نہیں کرتا ہوں۔ لیکن میں جاننا چاہتا تھا کہ اگر یہ صرف ایک حکایت والی چیز ہے جس پر میں توجہ دے رہا ہوں یا اگر آپ لوگ بھی دوسرے لوگوں میں بھی دیکھیں۔

نک: مجھے یہ پسند ہے کہ آپ نے کہا ہے کہ میں نے اسے اس نقطہ تک بھی دیکھا ہے جہاں آپ کو معلوم ہے ، جب میں نے اس کو دل سے بڑے پیمانے پر… HRV مانیٹر کے ساتھ سرگرمی سے ناپا ہے ، ایسا ہی ہے جیسے میں ٹیپنگ سیشن کے دوران HRV کو اپ دیکھ رہا ہوں۔ General Chat Chat Lounge میرے ذاتی تجربات سے بالاتر نہیں ہیں کیونکہ میں اس میں طرح طرح سے ہوں اور میں نے چیزیں نہیں کیں ، ایک چیز جو آپ کو معلوم ہے… یہ شاید اگلے درجے کا ڈیٹا ہے جو ہم ایپ سے حاصل کر سکیں گے۔ HRV ہے۔ کیونکہ ، آپ جانتے ہو ، وہاں اسے حاصل کرنے اور اسے ہم آہنگی کرنے کی ٹکنالوجی موجود ہے۔ میں اس کے بارے میں بہت پرجوش ہوں گے۔ جیسا کہ میں نے آپ کو کہا ہے ، ہمارے پاس اب 1 سے 10 ملین سیشنوں پر پیمانہ پیمائش ہے جو ایپ میں مکمل ہیں۔ تو ، ہمیں ڈیٹا پوائنٹس مل گئے ہیں۔ جب بھی کسی نے ایپ کھولی اور کہا ، “میں پریشان تھا” یا “مجھے تکلیف ہو رہی ہے ،” یا ، آپ جانتے ہیں ، جو بھی جسمانی علامات چل رہی ہیں ، وہ 0 سے 10 کہتے ہیں ، وہ کہتے ہیں ، “میرا سر درد ہے ایک سات یا ایک آٹھ ، “اور پھر آخر میں ، وہ کہتے ہیں کہ یہ تین یا چار پر ہے یا چلا گیا۔ تو ، ہمارے پاس وہ 0 سے 10 ڈیٹا ہے۔ میرے خیال میں اگلا مرحلہ وہی HRV ہے ، کیا وہ دل کی دھڑکن کا ڈیٹا ہے۔ میں اور بھی جانتا ہوں ، کہانی کے باوجود ، مجھے فیس بک گروپوں میں بہت کچھ نظر آتا ہے ، لوگ کہتے ہیں کہ بلڈ پریشر کے لئے ٹیپ کرتے ہیں اور وہ جاتے ہیں ، “میرا بلڈ پریشر ختم ہو گیا ہے۔” اگر وہ ہائی بلڈ پریشر کے ساتھ معاملات کر رہے ہیں تو ، یہ معمول کی حد میں ہے۔ لہذا ، ان میں سے کچھ مخصوص علامات جو لوگوں میں ہیں اور وہ مسائل ، ان میں ایک بڑا فرق نظر آتا ہے۔ لیکن جب میں ہمارے پاس HRV ڈیٹا رکھتے ہیں تو میں یقینی طور پر آپ کو بتا دوں گا کیونکہ مجھے لگتا ہے کہ اگلا مرحلہ ہے ، “واہ۔ یہ دیکھو کہ یہ جسم کو پرسکون کرنے ، اس کو غیر متزلزل حالت میں ڈالنے کے لئے کیا کر رہا ہے۔ “

کیٹی: ہاں ، اس سے مجھے اتنا احساس ہوتا ہے کہ جب آپ ہوتے ہیں… یہاں تک کہ اگر آپ تناؤ کا ازالہ کرنے میں بھی اتنا ہی آسان ہے تو ، آپ کو بلڈ پریشر کم ہوتا ہوا نظر آئے گا۔ آپ دیکھ رہے ہیں کہ آرام کی دل کی شرح کم ہوتی جارہی ہے۔ آپ نیند کو بہتر کرتے دیکھیں گے۔ اور میں واقعی سے باخبر رہنے اور دل کی شرح کی تغیر کو متاثر کرنے والے چیزوں کو دیکھ کر ابھی حال ہی میں اتنا موہ گیا ہوں۔ اور جو بھی واقف نہیں ہے اس کے لئے ، صرف ایک بہت ہی وسیع سطح ، دل کی شرح کی متغیرات ، جیسا کہ نام سے پتہ چلتا ہے ، بنیادی طور پر فاصلہ ، تغیر اور دل کی دھڑکنوں کے درمیان فاصلہ ہے۔ بہت سارے لوگوں کا خیال ہے کہ دل کی دھڑکنیں تقریبا almost جیسے ، ایک میٹرنوم میں بہت ناپتی ہیں ، لیکن حقیقت میں ایسا نہیں ہے۔ اور آپ بہت زیادہ تغیر چاہتے ہیں کیونکہ اس کا مطلب یہ ہے کہ آپ کا دل مطابقت رکھتا ہے۔ اور اسی طرح ، مجھے لگتا ہے کہ آپ ٹھیک ہیں۔ میرے خیال میں یہ تحقیق کا ایک ابھرتا ہوا علاقہ ہوگا اور وہ ایک جو ہمیں صحت اور لمبی عمر کے بارے میں بہت زیادہ بصیرت فراہم کرتا ہے ، اور مجھے لگتا ہے کہ یہ تناؤ سے جڑا ہوا ہے۔ لہذا ، مجھے کافی اعتماد ہے کہ ہم مستقبل میں اس پر ڈیٹا دیکھیں گے۔ اس سے پہلے کہ ہم ٹیپنگ کے کچھ مزید دانے دار استعمالوں میں آگے بڑھ جائیں ، مجھے بھی تھوڑی سی تاریخ پسند ہوگی۔ پہلے ٹیپنگ کہاں سے شروع ہوئی؟

نک: ہاں ، بہت اچھا سوال۔ تو ، اس کی جڑیں ایک طرح کے جدید اوتار ہیں۔ راجر کالان کے نام سے 1980 میں ایک ماہر نفسیات تھا۔ کچھ سال پہلے اس کا انتقال ہوگیا۔ اور وہ ایک روایتی ماہر نفسیات تھا جو اپنے گھر کے دفتر میں مؤکلوں کے ساتھ کام کرتا تھا۔ اور اس کا خاص طور پر مریم کے نام سے ایک مؤکل تھا ، جس کو پانی کا خوفناک خوف تھا۔ لہذا ، نہ صرف تیراکی ، جیسے ، شاور کرنے سے ڈرتا ہو ، پانی پینا۔ یہ صرف ایک مکمل طور پر اڑا ہوا پانی کی فوبیا تھا۔ آپ جانتے ہو ، اعصابی نظام ، رد عمل ، حد سے تجاوز کرنا ، پانی کے گرد چکر لگانا۔ اور انہوں نے تقریبا about ایک سال تک مل کر کام کیا ، روایتی چیزیں کیں جو نفسیاتی طریقہ سے کریں گی ، جیسے نمائش تھراپی۔ “ارے ، آئیے پانی کو دیکھتے ہیں اور اس کے بارے میں بات کرتے ہیں کہ ہمیں کیسا محسوس ہوتا ہے ، اور بچپن کے سامان کو دیکھیں۔ جب آپ آٹھ سال کی تھیں تو کیا آپ کو معلوم ہے؟ کیا آپ کو پانی سے متعلق برا تجربہ تھا ، وغیرہ؟ اور وہ کہیں نہیں مل رہے تھے۔ اور وہ مایوس تھا ، جیسا کہ آپ تصور کرسکتے ہیں۔ آپ کسی کی مدد کرنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں جس کو یہ کمزور فوبیا ملا ہے جو اس کی زندگی کے تمام پہلوؤں کو متاثر کرتا ہے۔ اور یہ صرف اتنا ہوا کہ وہ ایک دن اپنے ہوم آفس میں ایک دوسرے کے ساتھ کچھ نمائش کا تھراپی کر رہے تھے ، لہذا پول کو دیکھ رہے تھے اور کہہ رہے تھے ، “ٹھیک ہے۔ تم کیسا محسوس کرتے ہو؟ جیسے ، آپ کو اپنے جسم میں کیا احساس ہے؟ ” اور اس نے کہا ، “جب میں تالاب کی طرف دیکھتا ہوں تو ، اپنے پیٹ کے گڑھے میں تتلیوں کو لے جاتا ہوں۔”

اور وہ چینی میریڈیئن نظام کے بارے میں پڑھ رہا تھا اور پڑھ چکا تھا کہ پیٹ میریڈیئن آنکھ کے نیچے ختم ہوتا ہے۔ So, on a whim, on inspiration, on, you know, who knows what, that light bulb went off and he said, “Why don’t you try tapping underneath the eye to stimulate that meridian?” And she did so, and in that moment, 30 seconds of tapping, that phobia went away completely. It was one of those one-minute miracles, something happened, something switched in the firing of her brain. It previously thought water was dangerous. She had that encoding in her brain. The tapping while looking at it unlocked it. He got excited about it, as you can imagine, and went on to develop TFT, thought field therapy. And what he did through muscle testing and a couple of different things as he had different sequences for different things, so if you were angry, you would do a certain sequence of points. And if you were dealing with a phobia, you would do another sequence. One of his students by the name of Gary Craig, took his philosophy and really simplified it, and modified it. So he said, “Instead of trying to figure out, you know, what to do for anger and what to do for anxiety or phobias, let’s do all the main points every single time, you know, under this umbrella.” And that’s EFT. That’s what I learned almost 18 years ago now and what I’ve been sharing with the world ever since.

Katie: Amazing. And I wanna go through some specific use cases. And I think you actually just brought up the perfect place to start, which is fears and phobias. I’m really curious, some ways that people have had that help them and especially I have a couple of people I’m very close to who, for instance, have a fear of flying. Is that something that you have seen tapping help?

Nick: I have seen it help. I think we’ve taken it to the next level with the app because people, that was the first… I’d made three meditations in the app for fear of flying. And I have a dear friend who flies all the time for work and she hates flying. So, I have made it for her. It’s a girl I went to high school with who lives around here. And what makes me so happy about it is that three times already, while she’s been on a plane, she’s had people come up to her and say, “Oh, I use the tapping for flying too” because she’s so terrified of flying that she just does it on the plane. She doesn’t care what she looks like. You know, there it is. Now, what she is doing, the more she does it, she’s calming down the nervous system. She’s conditioning the body. And the way to approach the fear of flying and any fears and phobias, really, there’s a couple of different approaches. One is, all right, you’re scared of flying, you didn’t do the preparatory work before or you didn’t overcome the fear in a session. You’re on the plane, you’re freaking out. It’s really simple. Go through the tapping points, tap and breathe, tap and breathe, and calm the nervous system. Calm the body. That can work really well. Now, the ideal thing is you’re going to fly a month from now and you know that, and you’re feeling a little bit of that stress, and that anxiety, so you do some deeper tapping before you’re actually on the plane. What you can do there is ask yourself questions like, “When did this fear of flying start? How does flying make me feel? What is it triggering in me?” You can tap on your own. You can also tap with a therapist or you can tap with the app.

One of the great things about tapping is that you can do so much on your own. Just like, okay, learn the points. I’m stressed, off we go. But if you work with a therapist, if you use a guided process, if you use a tapping script, it can help bring out other things because a lot of people will get stuck and say, “I don’t know when it started or what I’m scared of,” and these other adjuncts can help sort of eliciting that response. But for fears and phobias, I’ve seen it work time and again. I mean, if we go back to that amygdala, why is it that someone can get on a plane, and have a happy experience, and no stress, and another person is, you know, clawing at the seat in front of them? Now, there’s a conditioned response. There’s something that happened to them. There’s meaning that they’re ascribing to the situation. Lack of control, you know, the inability to get out. What if this flight is like that other horrible flight I had where we dropped 10 feet? And that’s all it takes. You know, you have 1 bad flight and you drop 10 feet in the air, like, boom, fear of flying is in place because the nervous system, the body, the brain, everything is going, “That was a dangerous situation. We need to stay safe. We need to get out of this.” And I think that point where we see it highlighted so clearly with fear of flying is one that’s important to look at all aspects of our lives. If there’s a place where we’re stuck, if there’s a place where we have fear, it’s just our body trying to keep us safe. There’s nothing wrong with us. We’re not broken. You know, if you have a terrible fear of public speaking, you’re not a lesser person. For some reason, your body has decided, your brain, your system, that speaking in front of a thousand people is terrifying. It’s dangerous. It’s like you’re being attacked by a tiger or chased by a lion. This is why that amygdala’s firing and what the tapping does is it allows us to acknowledge these feelings and let them go.

Katie: Got it. And I’ll give an example from my own life. Recently, I don’t have a fear of flying, but ever since having kids, I don’t actually know what specifically caused it, I am terrified of roller coasters, which is funny because I used to skydive. I used to ride motorcycles, no problem. But there’s something in my brain since having kids that says, “This is a stupid idea and you’re going to die.” And we were recently at a theme park for my son’s birthday and we’re big on experiences instead of gifts. And so, he wanted to go ride these rides for his birthday. And his thing was he wanted to ride it with me. And we also have a motto in our family that you were made to do hard things. And so, like, he wanted me to go, everything, and he was like, “No, don’t go.” And like, “Mom, you’re made to do hard things.” And I was nervous enough to the point that I literally threw up. Like, I was having anxiety over, logically, it’s a roller coaster. I was not actually going to die, but I remembered thankfully tapping. And also, thankfully there was, like, an hour-long line to get on this thing and it was… I mean, it was a legit coaster. It went 60 something miles an hour. There’s 100-foot drop. It was a pretty big roller coaster, but I got to tap for an hour beforehand. And truly by the time I got on it, I felt like I had gotten in a much calmer place and I was actually able to enjoy it a little bit, and be in that moment with my son versus like, “I’m gonna die, I’m gonna die, I’m gonna die.” So obviously not as… I know people who have fears of flying, that’s a much more extreme fear and it can be, you know, really hard to overcome. But I noticed, even in that short amount of time, I’m so glad I thought to tap and I noticed I could see a huge change in my emotional response even in just that hour of tapping. So, I think it’s really amazing when you remember it and when you can do it, the change that you can see even in the day like that.

Nick: I love that. And you know what I love about that story, which is just underlying all of tapping is that you knew this tool and then you were in control. Like, you were able to do something for yourself. I think part of a challenge for so many of us is that feeling of not being in control. You know, one of the underlying components of feeling stress is the feeling of not being in control, not being able to change our outcomes and circumstances. You know, the opposite is feeling empowered in whatever we’re doing. Oh, I can make a choice to do something different. I can change my career. I can change my relationship. I can change my body. I can do these things, and that releases stress. When we don’t feel like we’re in control, we feel stressed. So, in that moment, even if it didn’t go and it wasn’t like, okay, everything was perfect, you were in control. You were able to control your body to make that shift. And I think that applies to so many aspects of our lives. It’s a theme I see time and again with people, they’ll use words, especially when they’ve been struggling for a long time with emotional challenges or physical ones. The first thing I hear when they start tapping is, “I feel hope for the first time” because it unlocked something within them. Just that shift from going, “Okay. My back hurts at a 10 and I’ve been struggling with this for 20 years and every doctor has failed me, and nothing seems to be working. And I did this tapping. And even if it goes to an 8 out of 10 or 7 out of 10, even if it still hurts like crazy, it’s like wait a second, there’s hope. I was able to make that shift. I was able to take that power back for myself.” And I think that’s such a huge part of this whole process.

Katie: Yeah, I agree. And I think that also like segues into the next point I’d love to talk about because I think anxiety is a big problem for a lot of women. I hear from a lot of women at least who really struggle with anxiety in some form and overwhelmed, certainly with everything moms have on their plates in the modern world. So, how can people use tapping to help address anxiety?

Nick: Yeah. So, the basics is just like doing the tapping, tapping on the side of the hand, you know, giving a voice. And, Katie, do you want to, you know, do a quick demonstration that way for people who are like…? I feel like anxiety is something everyone’s dealing with and maybe we can do a couple of rounds so we bring it to life for people and they can have an experience.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And for you guys listening, also, make sure you check out the show notes, because I know you guys have done videos on this. I’ll make sure we link to those as well. But absolutely, let’s go through it.

Nick: Great. So, with whatever we’re tapping on… And if you’re not feeling anxious in this moment, you can pick something else to work on. You can pick something you’re angry about or some pain or tension in your body. When we tap, we start by deciding, “Okay. What is it that we are working on?” So when you were going on the roller coaster, clearly it’s like anxiety about the roller coaster, all these fears. So, like, you knew what it was. So, take a moment to tune in and decide what it is that you wanna work on. And then as you tune in, so let’s say it’s anxiety, just notice where it is in your body. So you might feel it in your chest, or your stomach, or your throat. And then also give it a number of intensity on a scale of 0 to 10. So, 10 would be the most anxious, like you’re having a panic attack right now and you put on “The Wellness Mama Podcast” to calm you down. And here was your answer right in the middle. So, give it a number, 0 to 10 in intensity. And then we’ll start tapping. And I’ll describe the points to you. Again, the show notes. We’ll have links to our app where you can see all the points there, and videos, and everything else. But you should be able to follow along. Don’t worry about getting it perfect. So, we start by tapping on the side of the hand. It’s called the karate chop point. And you take four fingers with one hand, tap on the outside of the other hand below the pinky. You’re just tapping gently, almost, like, drumming on the table, focusing on that anxiety.

Now, I’m gonna say a couple of phrases and just repeat after me, either in your mind or out loud. So still tapping on the side of the hand. “Even though I have all of this anxiety, I choose to relax and feel safe now.” We’re gonna do that two more times, staying on the side of the hand, still on the karate chop point. “Even though I have all this stress in my body, it’s safe to feel it and let it go now.” And one more time still on the side of the hand. “Even though I have all this stress and anxiety and I don’t know how to let it go, I choose to release it now.” Now, we’ll tap through the points. The first point is the eyebrow point. It’s on the inside of the eyebrow, right where the hair ends and it meets the nose. You can take two fingers of one hand, the other hand or both hands. The meridians run down both sides of the body and we’re just tapping gently focusing on these feelings in our body so you’re focusing on the anxiety, the stress, the overwhelm. And moving to the side of the eye. It’s not at the temple, a little further in right on the bone. Again, one side or both sides. Tapping gently focusing on these feelings in your body, what are you anxious about? What’s going on under the eye? Again, one side or both sides, tapping gently, breathing gently. All of this anxiety, feeling it in your body, letting it go. Under the nose, tapping gently. Think the thoughts that cause this anxiety. What have you been worried about? What are the things that you’ve been saying to yourself?

Under the mouth, it’s above the chin, below the lip, and that little crease there, tapping gently, breathing gently, letting go. We’ve got three points left. For the collarbone point, just feel for the two little bones of the collarbone and just go down about an inch, all 10 fingers, both hands, tapping gently, tuning into that anxiety. Where are you holding onto it in your body? Notice the tension in your body. Notice the emotions associated with this anxiety, letting them go. Under the arm, three inches underneath the armpit, either side of the body, right on the bra line for women, tapping gently, breathing gently, noticing these feelings. The last point right at the top of the head on the crown. Be present to this anxiety in your body. We’ll do one more quick round, starting with the eyebrows. Just repeat after me, tapping on the eyebrow, “It’s safe to let this go.” Start with the eye, “I acknowledge this anxiety.” Under the eye, “And I begin to let it go.” Under the nose, “It’s safe to relax.” Under the mouth, “I don’t have to be on high alert.” Collarbone, “I can release this anxiety.” Under the arm, “And still be productive.” Top of the head, “Letting go now.” And now, you can gently stop tapping, and take a breath in, and let it go. And then we tune back in. So, see how you feel and check back in on that original number of anxiety. So, you might say, “It was an eight and now it’s a six or a five or a four.” And the tapping process is just repeating that, giving voice to it, seeing what comes out, seeing how things develop, and using it to move forward.

Katie: I love it. And I definitely feel very relaxed now. I’m glad we did that. A question I had from a reader is, “How do you know if you’re tapping on the right points?” And I know you have an app that makes it really easy, but, like, how important is it to get the point exactly right and how can you know if you’re on it?

Nick: Yeah, you know, it’s not like microscopic. If you’re using the two fingers or three fingers, you’re gonna hit the point. I think it’s good to look at the chart and know that you’re in the right area, and you’ll be good to go. So, you know, you don’t wanna be tapping on the ear when it’s on the side of the eye. If you’re a little further over, that’ll be fine. And, you know, a lot of people ask too, “Well, do you have to use all the points? What if I skip a point?” It is not a perfect magic science that if you don’t go in that order, it all falls apart. A lot of times, I’ll tell people, especially when they’re in public, so let’s say they’re on the plane and they’re not as bold as my friend, Sarah, who just taps through all the points happily on the plane, you can just tap on the collarbone point or on the plane too, you can press on the points. So you’re stimulating those points and you’re calming the body without, you know, being so obvious. Now, what’s funny on a plane, everyone does their own thing. You could really get away with a lot without people noticing but, you know, tapping gently on one point or pressing is a way you can do it in public.

Katie: Got it. If you’re worried about looking ridiculous on a plane. Let’s compare, maybe I’m wearing, like, blue blockers and usually have compression socks, and have some form of a device on me because I’m stuck there anyway so you definitely won’t get looks from me. Is there any particular way you’re supposed to breathe while you’re tapping?

Nick: No. And, you know, I think what’s more important is to notice the breath. And what people will find is that their breath deepens and relaxes as they do the tapping. We’ve got an anxiety in the breath meditation in the app specifically because when we connect the breath and we pay attention to it and the anxiety that we store in it, it opens up our lungs. And you could see that people’s breathing deepens and relaxes, another, you know, very concrete and obvious, you know, connection to our physical health. Like, how much more likely are you to heal from whatever you’re dealing with if you have a full, open, relaxed breath, if you’re not breathing from the top of your lungs, if your breathing isn’t shallow and anxious all day long? So, I think that’s some of the corollary effects that we talked about earlier, where it just helps the body heal because we’re deepening that breath and relaxing the body.

Katie: Absolutely. And I know in the app, I definitely would recommend it. I have it on my phone and you guys have them for so many different things, everything from motivation, for exercise, or for work, to sleep. There are several related to sleep that I have found really helpful, or for headaches, or to quiet your mind or, like, of releasing body image stuff. There’s a lot of different ones you can tackle in there. And I know we don’t have time to go through all of those today.

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Katie: I think another use of tapping that’s really important to the audience is how can we use tapping with our kids. I’ll say my kids love it, especially before bedtime and I’ll do it with them sometimes. But are there kind of best practices for doing this with our kids? As well as moms, of course, we wanna have our kids not have to face the problems that we faced and not have to get to the point where they have these problems. So can we use tapping to give our kids a good foundation?

Nick: Oh, for sure. For sure. And there’s two components. So the first one I would say is that whenever you’re dealing with any challenge that your kid is having, they, you know, aren’t listening well, aren’t eating well, aren’t sleeping, or driving you crazy, throwing tantrums, whatever it is you’re dealing with, step one is to do tapping yourself on the issue. I’ve just seen it time and again, where people go, “My child was throwing tantrums and then I did the tapping on my anger around it, and my stress, and all this stuff. And then their behavior changed. It’s like magic.” So, that’s the easiest thing that you can absolutely control is your experience, your reaction to it. And then beyond that, kids are so age-dependent obviously and they change dramatically from, like, three to four. My daughter, June, is four-and-a-half. She’ll do a little bit of tapping here and there. We have read her our kids’ book, it’s actually my brother, Alex, wrote a kids’ book called “Gorilla Thumps and Bear Hugs.” And that’s a little story that takes you through the points, that bring the points to life with animals. So, you know, you have the lion cry point and the gorilla thumb point. It’s actually quite helpful. I’ve had adults tell me that they remember the points better now from the kids’ books and the animals. So, that’s one thing to do, passively before bed. “Hey, let’s read this story” so it’s not, you know, do this weird thing.

Similar to my first point about doing the tapping yourself. I mean, and you know this. Like, if you want your kids to do something, model the behavior. So, if the kids see you tapping, they’ll ask about it and you could share, “Oh, well, I was stressed and overwhelmed and I tapped.” Or if your kids are struggling with nightmares, you can say, “Oh, I do my tapping before bed, that way I don’t have nightmares. Do you wanna do it too?” Every age is different. As they get older, that modeling becomes very important because you’re not gonna tell a 16-year-old what to do. And if you tell him to tap, it’s likely gonna make things worse. But if they’ve seen it along the way or if they see you do it, they might be open to it. One of the things, I remember this story so clearly that a lady told me a couple of years ago about how she was doing all this tapping. Her daughter was really struggling. Her daughter didn’t wanna tap, but she just kept doing her own work. She came home from school one day, her 16-year-old daughter and said, “Mom, can we tap about something? I’m just upset about it. I don’t wanna talk about it. I don’t wanna tell you what it is, but I just wanna tap on it,” which makes sense, right? Like, you’re 16 years old, it’s like, “Oh, you want help, but I don’t wanna tell my mom or dad, you know, what happened.” And they did the tapping without giving a voice to it, which is pretty cool that you… All her daughter had to do was think about the issue and her mom lead her through it. “Okay. Well, what are you stressed about?

Just think about it. You don’t have to tell me what it is. You don’t have to share that secret per se.” They did the tapping, released the stress, released that anxiety. And then, sure enough, the daughter then felt safe, grounded, comfortable enough to talk to her mom about it and say it was boy problems. There were things happening. And then, they talked about it. But then I just loved that story because it showed how we can use this as a passive tool to help our kids open up, that when we help them relax their bodies… You know, I’ve done tapping with kids as young as five or six on really nasty issues, bad stuff they witnessed, bad stuff that went through and we didn’t talk about it. We just tapped and we showed them this thing, and then they began to open up. And even if they didn’t open up, even if they were more pre-verbal on some of those more complicated issues so they couldn’t explain how they felt about seeing this horrible thing, they are still bringing it to mind, doing the tapping, helping release some of that trauma. The same thing applies with veterans with PTSD who might be 30 years old, where they don’t wanna talk about it. It’s too hard to give a voice to the thing that they saw. They don’t have to. They can just bring it to mind. “Okay. Just think about what you saw. Do it safely, do the tapping, begin to let it go.”

Katie: I think that point you just made is so important for every aspect of parenthood and especially this, but that to model it and not to force it. And I think that also applies to marital relationships. Like, I hear from women who can’t get their husbands to wanna make the health changes that they’re trying to really implement in their family or they can’t get their kids to wanna get on board. And that’s always my first advice is, “Don’t force it,” especially with your husband, don’t force it. Model it. And I see that time and time again and I see it in my own life. Like, we’ve made the health changes years ago, but in the last year, I started taking voice lessons and I started trying different kinds of workouts. And because I did it, my kids wanted to do it, whereas for years, I had asked them like, “Do you wanna take voice lessons?” Because I always wished I could sing. And modeling that behavior made them all want to, or if I sit down and draw at the kitchen table after dinner, they all come sit down with me and draw. And it’s the modeling. And I think that’s such an underestimated tool as a parent, as a spouse, even as a friend, is rather than trying to push something which carries a whole different kind of energy, is to just be a model and let it work, and be calm, and let it be effective in your own life, and then be willing to help someone else if they wanted and if they’re ready rather than pushing it. So, I love that you said that.

Nick: Yeah, I learned my lessons. You know, if I think about my 20s when I found a lot of this stuff and, you know, I first went to a Tony Robbins event when I was 24, and got all excited, and pumped. I spent my 20s trying to convince people, like, “You gotta do this. You gotta try this.” I can’t imagine how annoying I was during that time. And then as maturity settled into my 30s and now my early 40s, it’s like, “Hey, I’m just gonna put it out there and if you wanna learn more about it, I will help you. I will teach you, I will show you everything you need, but I’m gonna model it first.” So, I think that’s huge. And I’m curious, Katie, tell me more about your kids using tapping. Like, how have they experienced it and what are they seeing with it?

Katie: Yeah, they all have kind of their own use cases. And again, I don’t push it on them, so some use it more than others. The three-year-old loves it to help her fall asleep. So, she and I will do it together before bedtime. And then I’ll sing her her favorite lullaby. And we’ll just have, like, calm. And it really does seem to make a dramatic impact on her sleep and for me as well. Others I have that do it to just calm down stress. Like, they’re very focused and intense like I am. And so, it helps them get into a calmer state. My daughter is in pole vaulting and is pretty much competitive, at this point. And so, she’ll use it to kind of break through if she’s, like, having this, like, “I don’t know if I can hit this height,” or, “I’m afraid of it,” she’ll use it to kind of break through that. So, we’ve kind of used it in a case by case basis a lot of different ways. And thankfully, like, none of my kids have any major health problems or specific issues so it’s much more proactive and much more stress-related. But if there’s, you know, fighting or there’s anger, we try to use it at times like that.

Nick: I love it. I love it. That’s so fantastic. And what a tool that you’ve given them this early on that they’re gonna have for their lives. I mean, we all found this late and we’re trying to fix things from the past, but to have this tool early is just huge.

Katie: I absolutely agree. I think that’s my hope in my nutrition side as well and bringing guests like you on the podcast is obviously we want to all of us as adults become the best that we can, but also to be able to give our kids the gift of not having to ever get to that point, and then work out of it is just…to give them the foundation, to start from a better place, and to be better parents, and to have better health. And, like, all these things we wanna pass on to them as adults. And I think tapping, like I said, I think it’s a very low risk, potentially extremely high benefit way to do that. And I can’t believe our time has actually flown by so quickly, but I wanna make sure we talk about a little bit more tangibly, how can people get started, if this is resonating with them? If they wanna try it for anxiety, or they have a phobia, or they wanna help their kids have more calm and control, where is the best place to start?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, you know, a couple of years ago, I would’ve said the books. And there’s a lot of books, like “The Tapping Solution” book that they can pick up in any bookstore. And there’s one for pain relief and weight loss. I really think the easiest way to get started right now is the app because it’s free to download. There’s 15 to 20 free meditations in there that they can use immediately and forever at no cost. There’s a special section for teachers that’s through our foundation, and for military and veterans support, which is always free. And like you mentioned, there’s 150 different things in there. So, to me, that’s the easiest way to get started because you can just pull it up on your phone. I knew the app was gonna be a success when I was using my own app with my own voice to do tapping because I found it useful. And I’m not a big fan of listening to myself. I’m not a big fan of, like, rewatching videos or talks. But I think it’s just so helpful to have the guide. You know, 10 minutes you’re dealing with whatever’s going on. You’ve got a headache, there’s one on headaches. You’re anxious, there’s one on anxiety. You’re angry, you know, there’s one on that. So, 150 of them. And in 2020, I mean, speaking of parents and kids, we’ll be rolling out tapping specifically for kids and parents to do together within the app. So I would look out for that as well.

Katie: Amazing. And of course, I’ll make sure that the link to the app as well as to your books, and to the documentary, and your website, all of those will be in the show notes. For those of you listening while you exercise or drive, please don’t worry about writing them down, just go to wellnessmama.fm. They will all be linked there so you can find them along with the link to the ACE study that we mentioned, and the YouTube videos, and all kinds of things. You guys can go deeper on that. But Nick, thank you so much for all the work that you do in spreading the message about tapping and for helping so many people, and especially, I know you guys work with children now. I’m so grateful for your time and being here, and I hope that our time today helps a lot of you guys who have listened.

Nick: Katie, thank you so much.

Katie: And thanks as always to all of you for sharing one of your most valuable assets, your time, with both of us today. We’re so grateful that you did. And as always, I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.



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